Banana Ball Python - Complications with vendor

[bunkerguy]

Hey guys, I'm new here hoping I'm posting to the right forum.

I'm new to snake ownership but I've owned almost every other animal so I thought I'd try something different. I've done plenty of research and invested over $500 in her terrarium to fully automate heating/cooling and humidity. I've followed every guide on how to set up a snake's first habitat.

I'll start off by saying that I'm stupid for buying a pet from Petsmart. All of my other animals are rescue but I thought it would be best to get a young snake because of their temperament. One thing that concerns me is that I've owned the snake for a few days and I didn't much pay attention to the paperwork. Today I was browsing through and found some discrepancies with the feeding chart. I remember that when the girl who was helping me finalized the sale she had to go "get the paperwork" which took an unusual amount of time. If I'm reading right, she hasn't eaten since she arrived at the store. The new sheet that was obviously forged the day I purchased her says that she went from not eating at all many weeks in a row to suddenly eating perfect every day.

She was born in December of 2015 and weighs in at about 140 grams. I'm not scheduled to feed her until this Thursday (08/18/16). They told me she probably wouldn't eat since she is in the process of shedding (her colors got very dull and she is being stand-offish.

My issue is, should I be concerned that she hasn't eaten this long? There's no feeding record of her from before she hit the store so I don't know what her habits are. But I am slightly concerned because her skin feels a little loose and she folds up when she bends.

I'm slightly pissed at Petsmart for deceiving me, but I don't want to bring the snake back where she will obviously get neglected again. I do plan on escalating this to Petsmart corporate if it becomes a problem.

If anyone has some good advice on what steps I should take to make sure she is healthy snake and gets back into eating habits. Because all of my other animals are rescued I have made a vow to never abandon a pet after they become mine. I will care for them and love them forever. But I'm just worried that this snake might have complications.

I currently cannot afford a vet visit, at least for a few weeks since I dropped almost $800 on the equipment for her enclosure (I was not expecting to spend that much but I always take care of my animals to the best of their abilities).

Attached are commented images from the paperwork they gave me.

Thanks guys, and you'll see and hear from me again after this is resolved. I'm new to the snake community but I can see just by browsing through here that you guys bond together really well as a niche group, which is reassuring.












screenshot program

[jbzapanda]

Hey, and welcome! I'm pretty new myself, but from the research I've done I'd say you want to quarantine her in a smaller 6qt tub before introducing her into her new permanent home. I wouldn't really rely on PetSmart having taken the best care of her given her hatch date being in Dec. 2015 and only at 140g I'd say they were definitely lying about her feeding pattern or feeding her incorrect sized prey.

You should post some pics of her when you get the chance. As for food, did they feed live or f/t? For her size, she should eat rat fuzzies or small mice. Generally about 10-15% of the snake's body weight. You'd want to get to rats first though since they can be picky eaters and rats are easier in the long run in terms of how big of a prey you'll feed when she's full grown.

Oh and you should probably leave what your enclosure is like, heating temps, what the humidity is, etc. So everyone here can have an idea about your set up and if it's suitable for your little noodle. More people can help you understand why your snake is acting a certain way, or why it won't eat, etc.

I'm glad you're committed to your animals! I'm hoping she grows to the ideal weight soon. Update us on her health and congrats with your noodle baby!

[PitOnTheProwl]

$500 for the housing of a new hatchling Hope that included a quality thermostat?

I doubt they know when it was hatched and with the amount of stress I'm not surprised it hasn't eaten not to mention they have been trying to get it to eat frozen thawed......

What is your husbandry? First suggestion would be getting a 6qt/shoebox tub for housing, they are about $2 each.
Leave it alone for several days.
Read and understand this: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-hatchling-101

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Well the good news is that 4 months without food is not something that can't be fixed so long you follow the link provided by Pit, if you set her up in your $500 setup it is very likely that she will continue to refuse feeding, because my guess is that you went with a 30 or 40 gallons breeder tank which will be too big for an animal that size especially one that has issue feeding.

So get her a 6 quarts tub / 12 at the very most and in this case you want to use 2 hides, and offer a live mouse or rat up (not knowing what your snake was eating when it was eating and being so long without food there is a good chance your snake would go for a live rat pup, if it does not work the following week try a live mouse.

[Firebird]

Right away what strikes me as odd is that a big box store would be selling a female banana morph, usually those are kept by the breeder given they are extremely rare due to the banana genetics almost always coming out male. It sounds like your doing right by your snake given your single setup costs as much as one of the racks I use does lol, that said I would discard the chart and pick a day to feed each week. Weigh before to keep track of weight, and then feed after weigh in. Keep your own tracker of who ate when and what they ate, regurg, last shed, anything else of note etc etc. If you'd like I can post the tracker I made for some ideas but its a little more in depth than a lot of people use.

Edit* Didn't say it cause they already did, but I would definitely bump her down to something she feels more secure in until she gets bigger.

[Soord]

Right away what strikes me as odd is that a big box store would be selling a female banana morph, usually those are kept by the breeder given they are extremely rare due to the banana genetics almost always coming out male. It sounds like your doing right by your snake given your single setup costs as much as one of the racks I use does lol, that said I would discard the chart and pick a day to feed each week. Weigh before to keep track of weight, and then feed after weigh in. Keep your own tracker of who ate when and what they ate, regurg, last shed, anything else of note etc etc. If you'd like I can post the tracker I made for some ideas but its a little more in depth than a lot of people use.

Edit* Didn't say it cause they already did, but I would definitely bump her down to something she feels more secure in until she gets bigger.

I thought this was a myth that females are extremely rare. Don't you just need a female banana and you can make all the females you want? Considering all males bananas from the female will be fm and females will be a female they shouldn't be that rare. I guess I figured there are so many more males because they are a lot cheaper and no one seems to understand how the gene works

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[Eric Alan]

I thought this was a myth that females are extremely rare. Don't you just need a female banana and you can make all the females you want? Considering all males bananas from the female will be fm and females will be a female they shouldn't be that rare. I guess I figured there are so many more males because they are a lot cheaper and no one seems to understand how the gene works

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They're not extremely rare, but they are less common. Male BPs reach maturity faster than females, so they are paired sooner. When they are paired, they can sire multiple clutches each year. Add to that the sex-linked trait for the Banana gene and you end up with a ton of male-maker male Bananas. Yes, getting a female is as genetically easy as you think it is. It's just that it takes at least 2-3x longer to grow up a female Banana and even then she can only have one clutch/year. That's why there are so many more males than females in the hobby.

On a related note, your last sentance is backwards - supply/demand drives price, not the other way around. It is because there are so many more males that they are a lot cheaper. Also, I don't think it's a matter of not knowing how the gene works (for anyone with even a tiny bit of curiosity and eagerness to learn). In fact, I think it's the opposite - people take advantage of it and use it to their benefit quite often.

[Soord]

They're not extremely rare, but they are less common. Male BPs reach maturity faster than females, so they are paired sooner. When they are paired, they can sire multiple clutches each year. Add to that the sex-linked trait for the Banana gene and you end up with a ton of male-maker male Bananas. Yes, getting a female is as genetically easy as you think it is. It's just that it takes at least 2-3x longer to grow up a female Banana and even then she can only have one clutch/year. That's why there are so many more males than females in the hobby.

On a related note, your last sentance is backwards - supply/demand drives price, not the other way around. It is because there are so many more males that they are a lot cheaper. Also, I don't think it's a matter of not knowing how the gene works (for anyone with even a tiny bit of curiosity and eagerness to learn). In fact, I think it's the opposite - people take advantage of it and use it to their benefit quite often.

No I meant it how I said it. Females of many genes are more expensive. The banana gene makes the price impact more, because if people in the past opted for males because they are cheaper/ faster and made male makers before fully understanding the genes that would drive the price down on males a lot in a short time period and create the myth that females are extremely hard to hatch. I also meant that females being more expensive keeps the price down for this fact too because people will usually feel like it isn't worth it when you can hit 3 females 2 years earlier and still have a 15% chance on a female banana when buying a male. Especially when you can buy 2-3 males with the cost of a female. I guess it's kind of a chicken or egg scenario in a way.



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[bunkerguy]

Hey guys,

Been at work all day. I have a picture of her and her terrarium. Currently I'm struggling to get the tank heating figured out. I'm usually able to keep the left at about 90 and the right at about 79. I've got a dual thermometer that helps with this. Problem is that my living space has a dedicated air conditioner that cools it pretty low and removes most of the humidity. Still have some more equipment on the way from Amazon.

One idea from the enclosure being too big was maybe putting in a temporary divider on the right side. Would this work?

On another note I called Petsmart and chewed someone out. I'll probably continue to do so until she eats. Anyways they don't sell live rodents but I can pick some up somewhere else tomorrow. At 140grams and not eating in so long, what do you reccomend that I feed her? The guy at another pet store reccomended a "hopper".

For those talking about the female thing - She was $350 which seems cheap (I've seen old forum posts where people have said BBP's run for thousands?)

Attached are some pictures.
























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[bcr229]

Your thermometer reads temperature. You need a thermostat to regulate temperature. Do you have an under-tank heat pad or just the light?

If your AC vent is making the tank too cold and dry, either close off or block the vent, or move the tank so it's not in the path of the conditioned air.