Ranco etc burned out?

[MarkS]

This very well could be. Proportional thermostats usually work fine with GFI's. I've only come across one or two cases where there was an issue. If I remember right the person replaced the GFI with a new one of the same model and then it was fine. So there may be some tolerance differences. If you weren't already I would use a surge protector with a 2000+ joule rating in between the thermostat and wall outlet. The protectors have a mov cap that I suspect works both ways and may keep the relay arc from tripping the GFI.

Thanks, I didn't even think of a surge protector. That's a good idea.

[westom]

Thanks, I didn't even think of a surge protector.

Some Circuit Interrupters completely ignore arcing. Others are for detecting arcs - interrupting power if an arc is detected. No valid recommendation can exist without first defining what type breaker exists.

Same applies to a surge protector. It does nothing for that anomaly - does not even claim to. But many only know all good things solve all bad problems. Junk science reasoning. Most buy power strip protectors that are so tiny as to not even protect from near zero surges only because others say it is in the list of good things.

Start with that circuit breaker. Is it a GFCI or an AFCI? Arcing in a switch is often averted with a snubber. Did they include a snubber inside that design? Line filter would go a long way into averting intermittent AFCI trips. Numerous options exist AFTER the anomaly is first defined. That protector is not one. It does nothing until 120 volts well exceeds 330 volts. A 330+ volt transient anomaly does not trip breakers.

[spyderrobotics]

Some Circuit Interrupters completely ignore arcing. Others are for detecting arcs - interrupting power if an arc is detected. No valid recommendation can exist without first defining what type breaker exists.

Same applies to a surge protector. It does nothing for that anomaly - does not even claim to. But many only know all good things solve all bad problems. Junk science reasoning. Most buy power strip protectors that are so tiny as to not even protect from near zero surges only because others say it is in the list of good things.

Start with that circuit breaker. Is it a GFCI or an AFCI? Arcing in a switch is often averted with a snubber. Did they include a snubber inside that design? Line filter would go a long way into averting intermittent AFCI trips. Numerous options exist AFTER the anomaly is first defined. That protector is not one. It does nothing until 120 volts well exceeds 330 volts. A 330+ volt transient anomaly does not trip breakers.

From the thermostats circuits I have seen a snubber is not used. I experimented with many snubber designs to minimize relay arc and few showed any promise. From what I read the GFCI's work by sensing a imbalance between hot and neutral. I wonder if the relay arc is enough to upset that. The surge protector may not be the answer but something easy enough to test. I am not sure if it would provide any filtering or not. Line filter is a good solution but will also be costly. Zero crossing has worked the best in my testing and while a mechanical relay timing is not perfect you can still greatly minimize spark and I suspect much less likely to trip the gfci.

[westom]

From what I read the GFCI's work by sensing a imbalance between hot and neutral. I wonder if the relay arc is enough to upset that.

Arcing does not create an imbalance. But again, is it a GFCI or an AFCI? AFCI would assume arcing is a failed extension cord - cut off power.

Semiconductor switching would eliminate arcing using techniques such as switching on zero crossing (so as to not create excessive heat). Also necessary are numbers for that heater and for switch rating. Switches that cut off more than 1 amp will arc. But a switch is designed to minimize that arc and to not cause contact damage. Snubbing will not eliminate the arc - but will significantly reduce destructive effects.

If a GFCI trips simultaneously with arcing, then current is going somewhere else - where it should not be going. GFCI would be tripping as designed; reporting a potential human safety issue.

Line filters are expensive? What is expensive - a number required?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...68rtmX327KQOjg

[spyderrobotics]

Arcing does not create an imbalance. But again, is it a GFCI or an AFCI? AFCI would assume arcing is a failed extension cord - cut off power.

Semiconductor switching would eliminate arcing using techniques such as switching on zero crossing (so as to not create excessive heat). Also necessary are numbers for that heater and for switch rating. Switches that cut off more than 1 amp will arc. But a switch is designed to minimize that arc and to not cause contact damage. Snubbing will not eliminate the arc - but will significantly reduce destructive effects.

If a GFCI trips simultaneously with arcing, then current is going somewhere else - where it should not be going. GFCI would be tripping as designed; reporting a potential human safety issue.

Line filters are expensive? What is expensive - a number required?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...68rtmX327KQOjg

Semiconductor switching of course is best solution but has its own problems with heat output and is not something that can be added to correct the problem with the thermostat they already have.

Usually arcing occurs when the contacts are broken so that would be good info to know. If it trips during release (when the power is turned off to the heat).

Your link to line filters is for components and not a plug in solution. I was thinking more towards line conditioners that would be a plug in solution and may have built in line filters and such.

[westom]

Semiconductor switching of course is best solution but has its own problems with heat output and is not something that can be added to correct the problem with the thermostat they already have. ...
Your link to line filters is for components and not a plug in solution. I was thinking more towards line conditioners that would be a plug in solution and may have built in line filters and such.

If semiconductor heat is so problematic, then dimmer switches would even be hotter. Semiconductor switching is problematic when a switch is not properly designed. For example, if a switch uses a transistor, then heat can be problematic. Other semiconductor solutions (as found in dimmer switches) exist.

For example, that thermostat can drive a box containing a better switch (ie relay); that does not arc. A thermostat that conducts well less than 1 amp (to power that box) should not arc.

Retail price of filters is provided. Manufacturers box same filters (purchased at wholesale prices) and add a plug and receptacle. Then it sells at profit for a similar price. Demonstrated are filters (and costs) found inside filtered appliances and inside plug-in filters. Or build one. So again, a question. What number defines expensive?

Other numbers. What is an electrical specification for that thermostat switch? What numbers are for a heater. Better answers exist when numbers are provided. No numbers often results in answers that are only speculation or hearsay. And may even explain a previously discussed 'near fire'.

[highqualityballz]

What about a surge protector with a built in a gfci? Im not sure if my outlet is gfci protected but if its not can this be the reason it burned out?

[westom]

What about a surge protector with a built in a gfci?

Never saw a surge protector with a GFCI. What is this item - manufacturer name and model number - that addresses both anomalies?

GFCI is about not killing humans (or pets). It does nothing else.

When a GFCI does not see a same current coming back as is going out, then it assumes a human is being killed. So it cuts off power using an 'open the switch' technique that every appliance (using a mechanical or semiconductor switch) and wall switch use to power off. Power off (expected or unexpected) does not damage any appliance.

A surge protector and GFCI have nothing in common other than electricity. These are completely different devices for completely different and unrelated anomalies.

[highqualityballz]

Never saw a surge protector with a GFCI. What is this item - manufacturer name and model number - that addresses both anomalies?

GFCI is about not killing humans (or pets). It does nothing else.

When a GFCI does not see a same current coming back as is going out, then it assumes a human is being killed. So it cuts off power using an 'open the switch' technique that every appliance (using a mechanical or semiconductor switch) and wall switch use to power off. Power off (expected or unexpected) does not damage any appliance.

A surge protector and GFCI have nothing in common other than electricity. These are completely different devices for completely different and unrelated anomalies.

So just a regular surge protector could of prevented this? Gfci surge protectors do exist there are a bunch of diffrent brands google it.

[Jeanne]

So, heres a question..if one is going to use those oil filled heaters..why not skip the xtra expense of said reptile controllers and making sure the draw isnt too much for said equipment... And just buy one of the newer oil heaters that have its own thermostat? I have a couple of them, and they work great, only I dont have them hooked up in the manner others do to other thermostats.

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