The 80-92 degree heat gradient, where did it originate from?

[Willowy]

Yeah, conditions in captivity needs to be more on point, because they can't go anywhere else. In the wild, if they're too hot, they can find a cooler place. If they're too cool, they can find a warmer place. But they're kinda stuck with whatever we provide in an enclosure.

[PhoenixGate]

Maybe dropping the temps at night gives them a better sense of a day/night cycle? I know many animals don't do well if they don't have a consistent day/night cycle and keeping ball pythons in tubs deprives them of a lot of natural light (which shouldn't bother them too much if they hide out in termite mounds all day but still).

[Jvmun]

Petco care sheet

Jk Jk

I've wondered the same. The ball pythons in Ghana thrive, so the temps gotta be sustainable right?

I typically like looking up evidence, this is a good topic to dig for for. In to the journals for me

[Jvmun]

So far I've dug out an old manual I bought when I was a kid "Ball Pythons by Colette Sutherland Sep 1 2006" Some of you may recognize it.

It says
Hot spot :
80-85 F Hatchlings
85-90 F Sub-Aduts to Adults
Ambient Air:
High 70s - Mid 80s F

I would still like more support, this literature written on 6 references.

Does anyone own : http://vpi.com/store/products/python...imited_edition ?????

This looks like a reliable source reference in this manual.

[MarkS]

Does anyone own : http://vpi.com/store/products/python...imited_edition ?????

This looks like a reliable source reference in this manual.

I've got that book, I don't remember what it says about temps, I'll look it up sometime this weekend.

I also remember back in the day something about a video called Dr Steve Gorzula Presents: Ball pythons (or something like that) He's a scientist that went and studied ball pythons in the wild and talked to a lot of the trappers that were catching them. If I remember right he had some data on temps and humidity levels in his video. I believe that some of the care info that we use now was derived from his studies. I don't have a copy of the video but I remember people talking about it.

[Jvmun]

I've got that book, I don't remember what it says about temps, I'll look it up sometime this weekend.

I also remember back in the day something about a video called Dr Steve Gorzula Presents: Ball pythons (or something like that) He's a scientist that went and studied ball pythons in the wild and talked to a lot of the trappers that were catching them. If I remember right he had some data on temps and humidity levels in his video. I believe that some of the care info that we use now was derived from his studies. I don't have a copy of the video but I remember people talking about it.

Hey! I was just reading one of his studies! That's a good lead.
I found "Survey of the Status and Managment of the Royal Python in Ghana". Interesting read.

[OhhWatALoser]

This is only an opinion but I believe the gradient is more due to their physiology. They need these gradients to thermoregulate just as humans do internally. If you give them just a single temp they are stuck regardless of what internal temp is better for a certain situation, by giving them a gradient you allow them to choose what they need. Depending how far they are below ground they can definitely find temperature gradients below ground. I assume the original idea was to have the mean temp of a tank close to what they would encounter in the wild and have a few degrees above and below to allow for thermoregulation. At least that is what I would do. I definitely think people have tinkered with it over the years especially when you talk about breeding drops and such.

Yeah, conditions in captivity needs to be more on point, because they can't go anywhere else. In the wild, if they're too hot, they can find a cooler place. If they're too cool, they can find a warmer place. But they're kinda stuck with whatever we provide in an enclosure.

Sure we can come up with scenarios were they do thermoregulate but has that actually been observed? or do they just stay put where ever is secure? I know my ball pythons would choose a small igloo over a heatmat in the middle of the floor. also I would think the animal would have a target temp to maintain, why don't we just keep them at that temp? Sure heat helps them digest faster I know that has been observed, but do they actually do that in the wild? From what I can see they really don't encounter temps over termite mound temps too often. Gravid females bowl wrap in what appears to be an attempt to cool down eggs but What other conditions do they actually need different temps though? are our animals moving from cold to hot because of the hotspot?

sure it seems like I am just trying to play devils advocate, but honestly the cookie cutter way to take care of these animals in no way resembles their natural environment from what I can see. Now obviously these animals thrive just fine as pretty much all of us have proven. However I was hoping to find a source to this cookie cutter method and possibly the progression of that source just to see why. This curiosity stems from some people who have moved to the ambient only set up, which in their eyes resembles a natural environment better. I even talked with one breeder who is having way better breeding results now. So naturally I do my research and I'm starting to agree with their logic, but I want to cover all my bases, why do we take care of them the way we do? because I couldn't find it.

Hey! I was just reading one of his studies! That's a good lead.
I found "Survey of the Status and Managment of the Royal Python in Ghana". Interesting read.

I read that study is what that video was based off of. I did skim through it and didn't find anything about temperatures. Did have some interesting parts though. Looks like the video is pretty elusive, amazon is out of stock for the dvd, the site that used to sell it is no longer there. Don't see anything online.

[MarkS]

From the Pythons of the world, Vol 2. Ball Pythons. Page 169-170

To refine their thermoregulatory needs to the next level, we recommend ambient temperatures of 78-80 degrees F with a basking spot of 86 degrees F. Some keepers maintain these temperatures around the clock, while others turn off the basking spot at night and allow the average temperature to drop a few degrees.

[AntTheDestroyer]

The problem with no gradient is that you are assuming there is a sweet spot that the animal wants to be at all the time. First you have to be able to know and hit this temperature. Doesn't it make more sense to give an animal a gradient and let them figure out what temp they want to be at? Second you are assuming the animal wants to be at the same temperature all the time. You even admitted there are times when an animal benefits from being able to increase its temperature. Also as a bit of anecdotal evidence I often see all of my snakes on a hot spot of around 89 degrees, if they didn't appreciate these higher temps they would not be on this side.

[OhhWatALoser]

The problem with no gradient is that you are assuming there is a sweet spot that the animal wants to be at all the time. First you have to be able to know and hit this temperature. Doesn't it make more sense to give an animal a gradient and let them figure out what temp they want to be at? Second you are assuming the animal wants to be at the same temperature all the time. You even admitted there are times when an animal benefits from being able to increase its temperature. Also as a bit of anecdotal evidence I often see all of my snakes on a hot spot of around 89 degrees, if they didn't appreciate these higher temps they would not be on this side.

I feel I'm assuming less than the current care sheet when compared to their wild environment. Despite how many times it is said, I don't see my animals choosing a tempature, they choose security almost every time. Those times are after eating, which higher tempature just happen to speed up digestion but by no means is it nessisary. Besides that... What other times are there?