Paying for possible hets

[PitOnTheProwl]

I've waited for this chance for years.

Many people don't want to do this.
All I have is time.

[AntTheDestroyer]

I see what you are saying about the more expensive and new mutations, but that is just way to much risk for me. As I am mostly interested in the recessive gene it is hard to see where a ph that did not prove out would fit into my plans, and maybe that is the issue. I mos def make sure about the parents and that the seller guarantees 100% get in the animals I am looking at. I think if I produce possible hets in the future I will definitely sell them at normal prices with the chance that the buyer can get lucky.

[PitOnTheProwl]

it is hard to see where a ph that did not prove out would fit into my plans,

?? If you are looking at adult breeders BUT if you are looking at hatchlings then you are looking at it all wrong.
One of my first pairings was a het Albino to a het Albino. I got 2 visual females out of that clutch and 3 possible het so that makes the parents proven but the non visuals are still only possible.
Was it worth it to me? I had less than $100 in the two original animals and the female was almost 1500g when I got her.

[PitOnTheProwl]

Forgot to add, 1 of those 2 females is the dam to my double het clutch this year.
The same clutch that I did not know my Axanthic was also het Albino.
Its a long way to making it Snow

[bks2100]

I don't think I'd buy a possible het unless I'd be fine with it not being het. I have a pied and het pied female and a pied male. If someone was selling a ph pied female hatchling I wouldn't care, I can get 100% het all day for 50 bucks at shows near me. If it was near breeding size them maybe. Last show a guy had a possible het female pied that the guy said locked with his male visual pied and might lay. That's a lot of maybes but I could have gotten her for 75, only 25 more than a guaranteed het hatchling. That would probably be worth it to me, but still not something I'd jump at. If it was a lemonblast ph pied then I'd for sure pay more for it than just a lemonblast.

I have seen those ph pied snakes with a couple morphs that are basically the same price as a 100% het and I wouldn't go for that. It all depends what I want and how much budget I have. Most of the time it seems like I'd look at a snake for the morphs it has but the price was too high because it was a ph het or 66% het for something I don't have in my collection.

Most of the PH animals in my collection have been animals that I produced and I knew would prove out

How did you know they'd prove out? Do you just mean your spidey senses were tingling?

[Albert Clark]

First of all, Deborah said MOST of her possible hets were animals she knew would prove out. Never said ALL of the possible hets would prove out. So I take it the way she knows is bc she knows who and what she paired up. The parental genetics and the hatchling genetics produced from that pairing. As opposed to someone reporting a possible het bc they are trying to offload normals as something they aren't and getting a unfair price for it.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

Many people don't want to do this.
All I have is time.

Recessives are definitely a patient man's game but I greatly prefer them. The only codoms in my collection are focused on pairing with recessives.

I see what you are saying about the more expensive and new mutations, but that is just way to much risk for me. As I am mostly interested in the recessive gene it is hard to see where a ph that did not prove out would fit into my plans, and maybe that is the issue. I mos def make sure about the parents and that the seller guarantees 100% get in the animals I am looking at. I think if I produce possible hets in the future I will definitely sell them at normal prices with the chance that the buyer can get lucky.

It all depends on your situation. Here's a zero risk situation:

You have pieds and want to produce banana pieds. Banana het pieds are too much for your pockets so you are resigned to purchasing a regular banana, crossing it with your pied, getting guaranteed hets, crossing back, and eventually producing the banana pied after a couple crossings. For slightly more than the banana alone, but much less than a guaranteed het, you can get a possible het and have a chance cutting this time in half. There's absolutely no risk as you would not be any further behind than with your originally intended banana only purchase. You may be out a hundred bucks or two for the chance of saving a couple years.

First I want to preface this with I am fairly new to the hobby of ball pythons. I was just curious as to what your opinion about paying more for possible het animals is? I am in the market for a het pied and some people seem to want crazy money for a possible het animal with one co dom gene. I understand you may be able to rake in some reward if the odds hit in your favor, but not if you end up paying more for the animal. In my eyes possible hets are generally a miss in a breeders plan and would be available at discounted prices. With the buyer being the one with everything to lose you would think they would be more reasonable. Maybe I just don't understand where these breeders are coming from, and would appreciate enlightenment.

This isn't really correct. Possible hets aren't a miss in a breeders plan but rather what happens when a het is paired up with anything but a visual. Not everyone, especially when starting out, can pair up hets to visuals for every breeding. Even the big guys will do het x het crosses for the chance at something truly incredible. I consider any "hets" produced from a female that was bred to anything but the visual morph in the past to be possible hets and a breeder should label them as such or at least disclose the past breedings. These potential hets could be considered a breeding miss due to poor planning.

They are always available at discounted prices... less than the price of a guaranteed het. As others have mentioned, sometimes it's not worth the trouble to mark up or even label possible hets or even guaranteed hets as anything but normals. I sold all my guaranteed het pied males as just normals and ph ultramel males as normals or pastels. I held back all the females

[PitOnTheProwl]

Recessives are definitely a patient man's game but I greatly prefer them. The only codoms in my collection are focused on pairing with recessives.

Working my way there too.

[AntTheDestroyer]

I would argue that nobody tries to create ph animals and they only exist by proxy of a desired combination. A genetic miss is a miss even if it is expected. I understand that they should be discounted but in my recent search this does not seem to be the case, hence the creation of this thread. They can be worked into collection, just not my small plans. I still don't know why someone would pay much if any more for a animal when in most cases you could produce a 100% het in one season. You are right recessive are a patient man's game and that seems like the right play.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

How did you know they'd prove out? Do you just mean your spidey senses were tingling?

I mainly work with Pieds so back when I first started ( a while ago when Het Pied were $1200 a pair), I just held back PH Pieds that had the right markers, I did the same again when holding back an Enchi PH Pied 3 years ago and last season with Het Hypo PH Pied.

The male CG Leopard Het Hypo PH Pied has strong markers (that's why I bought him) and I feel confident that he will prove.

So far all have proved out and I am pretty sure the Hypo PH Pied will too.

Now while markers are not a 100% guarantee when purchasing (plus some are obvious other are not) it's a good way to determine which animal to keep when breeding, you just need to know what you look for.

Het Pied are easy to spot