Correct supply list?

[Ninjouzata]

I used the stickied pvc and 20 long threads to get an idea of what I'll need in the future. I'd like to know if this is all the right stuff and everything I'll need.

I know not everyone likes glass tanks and it can be hard to get the humidity right for them.
I'd make sure it's up and running correctly before ever adding a BP though and eventually upgrade (after the BP grew) to an AP cage and get a nicer thermostat.

I hope this was the right place to post/that it's okay. It feels like a lot to look at.

- 10g glass tank -- Would a 20 long be a better option?
- Screen top (grreat choice reptile screen cover link)
- Screen Clips (zilla heavy duty screen clips link)
- UTH (ultratherm link)
- Thermostat (zoo med link OR hydrofarm link) -- Would like to know which one is best or if they're both fine. I'd prefer to order from LLLreptile since that's where I'd be getting other things.
- Thermometer w/ Probe (acu-rite indoor/outdoor thermometer link)

- 2 Hides (small black hide box link) -- Want to make sure the size would be good for the tank and for a small bp, although I'm not sure how to describe the size of what I'd be looking for.
I want to watch it grow Also really confused that they list it as not okay for BP hatchlings and then right below say ideal for BP hatchlings.
- Water Bowl (national geo mayan water dish link)

This is a confusing spot for me
- Heat Lamp (zilla regular ceramic dome lamp 8.5in link) -- Holds up to 150 watts, would this be enough for the bulb or CHE? I read it's good to have extra.
- Bulb (zilla night black heat incandescent spot bulb link) -- Is this the right thing for providing heat without putting off light? Just want to make sure the air would be warmp enough during winter. I live in GA if that helps.
OR
- Ceramic Heat Emitter (zilla CHE link) -- Same question as the bulb and which would be better? I assume this since it costs more.

- Lamp Dimmer (lutron credenza 300w link)
- Substrate (exo terra coco husk link)

Optional but very useful stuff?
- Scoop (zilla corner litter scoop link)
- Scale (pro scale 300gram pocket scale link) -- Could I just use our kitchen scale if putting the snake in a container that is only used for it? I know weighing them is important c:
- Spray Bottle (exo terra mini mister spray bottle link)
- Leafy Decor (exo terra abutilon silk jungle vines link)

Thank you, sorry for the length. Really do hope this was okay to post and it's not asking too much.

[Vanthios]

I looked over your last post where you explained your dilemma. If you are to try and convince your parents to change their view on snakes, ball pythons are probably the best snake you could use. That being said, there are a few things you should know before setting one in the hands of your father: juveniles can be quite nippy (so handle a commonly held adult), franchise pet store animals are not where you should purchase your snake (even though we feel bad for their situation, supporting Petco or Petsmart by giving them money only continues their typically poor care for their reptiles)¹, and ball pythons are definitely a commitment.

Now to your list...
Your tank size really depends on what size BP you purchase initially. If you go with a month-old, or some other really young BP, the 10G or even a small Sterilite tub would be sufficient. There's actually a currently active thread that discusses housing for more infantile BPs². If you were to go to a reptile expo and purchase your first snake from a well-established breeder (which is clearly recommended), you wouldn't have any trouble getting firsthand advice on what size enclosure you should purchase for the specific animal you're interested in. I'd say that you'd probably end up leaving with something that should be kept in a 20G, where the snake's upper margin is met so the enclosure is not too large that it's stressful while also being large enough for some growing room.

Although I wouldn't purchase an animal from a franchise pet store, a screen is fine. I purchased the flip-screen for my 40G breeder tank from Petco and felt that it was of decent construction for the price. There isn't really much between screens; a screen is a screen. You'll end up wrapping a large portion of it in aluminum foil anyway in an effort to maintain humidity.

Screen clips are a great investment. I've already had one escape and I turned half my house upside down before finding her. Given the chance, a BP will run away. They're just adventurous like that. Screen clips are also a good way to prove responsibility and security towards your less-than-acquiesced parents.

Ultratherm is a great UTH choice, but I'm basing this claim on what I've read by others versus from my own experiences³.

I would go with the Hydrofarm thermostat. It would take too long to link all the threads that recommend it as a first thermostat. Inexpensive, functional, and generally reliable. Herpstat products are the thermostats of choice, though.

Acu-Rite is definitely a great choice for your temperature and humidity readings, but I'd go with this model. I'm also seeing a lot of people starting to use this model; I've just always used the former. It does seem that the former model is starting to disappear, for some reason.

Hides are hides. To get an idea for the sizes of the ones you posted, use a ruler to draw out on a sheet of paper the size described, then reduce the area a little since the given size is the exterior size. Also note that, from their site (on the linked page), LLLReptile states: "Mini Size is ideal for hatchling colubrids, hognose snakes, hatchling leopard geckos and other small baby reptiles. They are NOT meant for hatchling ball pythons. Small Size is ideal for hatchling ball pythons, hatchling boas, etc." They aren't stating that the same size is not ideal for hatchlings then that it is ideal for hatchlings; instead, they're stating that their mini size is not ideal for hatchlings while their small size is. The mini size is smaller than the small size. Also note that, if you're going for a realistic look, you could use Exo Terra's medium rock hides. I own two of these and two of the large ones. I had some shipping problems with the large ones, but the mediums were and still are great. My 110g BP currently has two in her 20G tank.

I use Exo Terra's water dishes. I believe in purchasing a water dish large enough for your snake to soak if they desire to do so. If you do go with a larger water dish (and if you're using a 20G I don't think you can fit any of the Exo Terra dishes larger than the large size in the tank), never fill it up past the height of your snake. If they want to soak, they don't want to drown doing so.

A Digression:
I noticed that you have quite a few Zilla items on your list. I'm honestly not a fan of Zilla. I haven't had very good experiences with them in the past when I owned a leopard gecko. Between my two enclosures and all my supplies, I don't think a single item is by Zilla.

If you decide to go with a lamp, you're going to experience some humidity difficulties. That's not to say heat lamps shouldn't be used, it's just saying that you'll be doing more misting than if you went with a UTH. You could also use a UTH and a heat lamp, but make sure that their combined heat production doesn't surpass the upper margin of your BP's comfortability zone. I use Fluker's Dimmable 8.5in Dome. The inline dimmer is perfect for first time ownership as you can use any sufficient bulb in it. If it's too hot, just dim it. If it's too cold, undim it.

For your bulbs, 150 watts is more than enough. In my 20G tank, a 150 watt bulb sitting on the screen will give you about 105 to 110 degrees on the substrate, far more than what you need. If you're going for longevity, you could get the 150 watt bulb and use it with the dimmable lamp to get the right temperature, then adjust when you increase the tank size. It's unlikely that the bulb will last that long, but hey, you go that route if you feel it's necessary. CHE's are great, but they're also pretty expensive. I forgot who made my bulb, but I believe it was one of those franchise pet store brand ones with the light green striping on the box. I've read about ZooMed and Exo Terra bulbs blowing quite frequently.

I actually have a brick of the Exo Terra substrate you've linked. I haven't used it yet. It's basically compressed substrate that you mix with water to make it expand. I was going to add it to my preferred substrate, Kritter's Crumble Fine Coco Husk. With just one bag I've bedded a 40G breeder tank and a 20G long tank, as well as replace substrate after urates, urination, and excretion for just about three months. It's very soft and holds humidity very well. You could try the Exo Terra, the Kritter's Crumble, or a mixture of the two.

Scoops seem useful, but they're just another thing to clean. I purchased a bag of throwaway, hypoallergenic plastic gloves that I use to remove all excreted materials. If you scoop a poop with the scoop, you need to disinfect and sterilize it before it becomes a harbor for bacteria that you reintroduce into the enclosure each time you use it to scoop things out. Gloves are easier.

I use this scale. Don't buy a scale that maxes at 300g because your BP will surpass it quickly. The one linked can support two full-grown female BPs (~5.4kg)

That spray bottle is actually a pretty good deal. I need to get one of those.

Those are some expensive plastic plants... cough cough

Good luck with your endevaor! There's a lot of learning to be done and no matter how much reading you do, you'll find that the experience is best accumulated from firsthand experience. I hope you successfully convince your parents to let you own a BP. You never stop at one...

---

¹: various instances of poor care by franchise stores

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ighlight=petco
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ighlight=petco
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ighlight=petco (supports and refutes my claim)

Conflicting instances:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ighlight=petco

²: thread discussing housing of an sub-juvenile BP

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...atchling-owner

³: thread discussing Ultratherm UTHs

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ght=ultratherm

[Ninjouzata]

I feel nervous writing things in forums that are new to me so I left some stuff out on accident

I'll try to clarify myself a little. I wasn't going to try to get my dad to actually handle one, just want him to see me handle one. Although it would be wondeful if he did, I will keep what you said in mind as I imagine he wouldn't want to see something nippy with me either. I actually would like to purchase from Justin Kobylka (he's only ~45 mins away) so the thing with the pet store was just the easiest/only way I knew of to look at snakes up close. He did say we can go to repticon so I'm sure we'll meet some great breeders there too! I did feel bad though, the snake I was looking at was skinny and looked like his skin was pretty loose.

I would try to grab a sterilite tub as well just in case as I think I've seen someone on here post to change them to that if they stop/wont eat. Thank you for the link! I actually have a seperate list for setting up a 20g long as I was thinking exactly that. I'm just worried about being able to make it feel safe enough but like you said it'll depend on the size of the snake.

I figured on the screen, just wasn't sure if any were particularly known for being easier to push against to escape, even though there will be clamps and aluminum foil. I'm glad you were able to find your BP! Cute little adventurers

I'm glad the ultratherm is good! Thanks for the link re-confirming that. Okay, will go with the hydrofarm if any of this happens soon. I do plan on eventually upgrading to a herpstat though.

I like the thermometer you linked, it looks like it has more options and/or is easier to use.

I'll try the drawing like you said. Thanks for the clarification, I just didn't read it well enough D: I do want a more realistic look, this list was just made as a "bare minimum" sort of thing, the less it costs the more convincing it can be. Of course though I don't want to skimp on important stuff like the thermostat which is why I went with the middle one from the sticky instead of the lowest. I like the rock hide

Yeah the water dish is hard for me to think of the size on since I have read they should be big enough to soak in and not drown like you say. I like that one you posted. Good to know on the large size for the 20G!

Thank you for the note on zilla, I'm not attached to that brand it's just due to the price and ease of finding it (I'm not the best at finding stuff). I don't mind looking at other stuff though. Are they just very low quality stuff or is their customer service bad?

That was my intention to use the lamp and UTH. If I had to go with just one I'd go UTH though since I believe belly heat is most important, right? I was just concerned about the warmth of the air especially during winter time. Ooh it comes with a dimmer, that looks good! Thank you

That is very hot! I definitely will use a dimmer. What wattage would you recommend instead? I'll try to keep an eye out for the light green striping brand.

I didn't know it needed water added, although I figured that would happen anyways due to misting, I hope there are instructions for that. That is a lot of substrate c: That's why I chose that one is because of the coco husk being good for humidity, since I know glass tanks can be difficult. Plus I like the color.

Great note on the scoop, I hadn't thought about having to sanitize it each time. Will look into gloves but what about when replacing all of the bedding at once? I guess I'd be taking everything out so I could just tip the tank into a bag.

I thought it might be silly due to the max weight, thank you! The one you linked seems much better. Look at all these nice deals going on :3

Yeah with that price I figured why not for the spray bottle! I was trying to think of different places to get plants, like at a craft store >< They are pretty expensive. Thank you for the much cheaper link!

Thank you so much for all the information and time you spent putting it all together, I really appreciate it and hope my responses don't sound off.

I hope to get some firsthand experience in the near future. I don't think I can stop at one either, I already know multiple morphs I'd like and then a few other types of snakes that I'd want to own far into the future when I have more experience.

[Megg]

I would definitely go with hydrofarm instead of zoo med, if those are your options. I've used both, and hydrofarm is definitely the more reliable of the two. I think vanthios did a good job explaining the rest. make sure you post pictures when you bring your new pet home! And feel free to post pics of your setup once you get it together if you need more help.

[Ninjouzata]

I would definitely go with hydrofarm instead of zoo med, if those are your options. I've used both, and hydrofarm is definitely the more reliable of the two. I think vanthios did a good job explaining the rest. make sure you post pictures when you bring your new pet home! And feel free to post pics of your setup once you get it together if you need more help.

Okay thank you! Is there another type you would suggest/like using? He did If/when I am able to get a snake I will definitely post pics! Thank you very much~

[ReptiMoto]

I have a 20 galllon long glass tank (for fish) just use a towel to cover the top to keep the humidity up

[Megg]

Okay thank you! Is there another type you would suggest/like using? He did If/when I am able to get a snake I will definitely post pics! Thank you very much~

Herpstat is definitely the best choice if you're willing to put out the money.

[Ninjouzata]

I'll definitely see if I can get that instead, since I'd be upgrading to it eventually anyways.

[Ninjouzata]

Not sure if I should post this in another thread or not.
When/if I were to get an AP cage I'd like the T8 w/ sliding glass doors and there are some additions I'm curious about if I'll need or benefit from.

The locks are a must for me, but would the flexwatt be something I should use instread of an ultratherm uth?

Would the 8" circle screens that are used for dome lights be needed or would I even need that light?
The only reason I have that listed above is to help with air temperature, otherwise I'd just like the white fluorescent fixture addition for viewing.

I'm just trying to see how costs would be to go with the T8 right off the bat (with a divider) instead of getting the other stuff and needing to get rid of the other things or buy better quality stuff later on.

[Ninjouzata]

Hmmm or if/when I were to get the AP cage would a RHP be best? I seem to keep reading it's best to use belly heat along with it though.

We went to repticon today (or I guess yesterday considering the time now) and it was fun. I got to hold two BPs, they were so soft and adorable.

Im sorry my questions and such are a bit scattered, there are so many different approaches to how to house them and what equipment to use so it's pretty confusing and overwhelming.