Breeding Normals..is it a bad thing?

[SCWood]

I've noticed an almost negative stigma surrounding the thoughts of breeding normals. Of course, my fiancee and I have already discussed breeding in the future, and she very much wants to start with our two normals. Why? Well, they have great disposition and awesome colors. Personally, I think one might be Het for Mojave (is that possible? ) and want to prove it out by a normal x mojave pairing. Thoughts?

[PitOnTheProwl]

Cannot be het for a co dom, not possible.

Breeding for normals is okay as long as you plan to keep them or have an outlet for them.

[guanagator]

Cannot be het for a co dom, not possible.

Breeding for normals is okay as long as you plan to keep them or have an outlet for them.

X2 what will you do with the offspring? I understand the desire to do so but you should understand clearly from the start it's not economically sustainable unless your fine committing hundreds of dollars to raising and caring for normals. It's not possible to have them pay for themselves like some other morphs, they are offered at shows for $20 and free from many breeders with any other purchase so the market is flooded with them and many are culled. As hobbyist we have higher cost then the breeders do per head each baby will need 5-6 meals at least before selling and ones that don't sell still need to eat, few months down the road when your 50-60 bucks in rodents a 300g normal is still only worth $20.

You could breed both your normals to other mates instead for example pair them each with a super, ALS, or recessive morph and then none of your offspring will be normals and you will at least likely be able to sell a few to cover some feeder cost. Another project would be taking the one you think looks different and breeding it selectively to see if that's a genetic or random mutation.

[SCWood]

Cannot be het for a co dom, not possible.

Breeding for normals is okay as long as you plan to keep them or have an outlet for them.

Okay thanks for clarifying. We don't know much, so breeding is a long ways away. Plus, we want an incubator ready before we even start pairing

[SCWood]

X2 what will you do with the offspring? I understand the desire to do so but you should understand clearly from the start it's not economically sustainable unless your fine committing hundreds of dollars to raising and caring for normals. It's not possible to have them pay for themselves like some other morphs, they are offered at shows for $20 and free from many breeders with any other purchase so the market is flooded with them and many are culled. As hobbyist we have higher cost then the breeders do per head each baby will need 5-6 meals at least before selling and ones that don't sell still need to eat, few months down the road when your 50-60 bucks in rodents a 300g normal is still only worth $20.

You could breed both your normals to other mates instead for example pair them each with a super, ALS, or recessive morph and then none of your offspring will be normals and you will at least likely be able to sell a few to cover some feeder cost. Another project would be taking the one you think looks different and breeding it selectively to see if that's a genetic or random mutation.

That sounds like a much better project I like it! Thanks for being fair. I didn't think of it from that standpoint. I have a huge interest in basic morphs (Albino, Mojave, Butter, etc) and I really want to get my collection started off well so we can move from there.

[Marrissa]

I'm one of those that does not think very highly of breeding normals. The reason is there are so many. There really just isn't a great wanting for normals. When I was looking for my first snake (I only intended having one for a pet), I wanted something that looked different. If you're going to have that animal for 20+ years I'd rather it be eye candy. I stayed away from normals or morphs that looked like normals to my inexperienced eye for this reason. I went with a pinstripe. Now, with my available options around that same price point, I'd probably pick a banana.

To me breeding two normals together is like breeding two lower grade stock. In terms of horses, you can either breed sport horses, where they are usable and top of the line. Or you can breed backyard grade nobodies. (two normals) You're just going to put more mediocre stock out there to oversaturate the market with unwanted animals. When breeding, you should breed to achieve something. Not just breed to breed. With my crosses I breed to attain certain combos. I want to make eye candy. I want to obtain those combos that I simply could not afford without breeding it myself.

Most ball pythons have great disposition and variances in colors. If you're just wanting to breed two normals together to make more normals, why do you adopt some normals from other breeders? They're pretty much given away because no one is going to pay $50 in shipping to buy a normal.

And I feel the same way about the cheap gene pairings like pastel, lesser, pinstripe x normal female. You aren't going to be adding anything to the gene pool. You're going to make more very cheap animals that the market is already flooded with. Also feel the same way about the people just tacking on as many genes as they can, regardless that the quality of the genes aren't good. It's why I saved up money to start with higher value stock that's going to get me farther quicker. I also waited shopped around for quality examples of the morphs I wanted.

[Asherah]

I would first suggest a lot of reading about genetics before you start breeding. Gene's like Mojave are not hets, they are a Co-Dom (although this term is not exactly right either) which means either the snake will be a Mojave both genetically and in phenotype (it would show as Mojave visually) or it will not be one at all.

Next I would ask why you want to breed normal's. What will their babies bring to the table for you? Are they superior examples of ball pythons? What would they add to the gene pool? What are your reasons for breeding them? There are lots of nice morphs out there with great temperaments that you could breed and re-home the offspring much more easily than you could a group of normal hatchlings.

Then I would ask if you are prepared to care long term for 4-6 more normal ball pythons? Possibly more if she has a large clutch.

Of course, if you want to breed the animals and you have the ability to care for the offspring then go for it. They are your animals and our opinions on the matter are really a moot point.

For me, I see no real need to deliberately add more normal animals to a market already saturated with them.

[guanagator]

I would spend some time on world of ball pythons big list (warning can be simultaneously frustrating and addictive) look at the combos with morphs your interested in and use that to guide your pickups. Other advice is since you already have 2 males then get some girls! They are the foundation of any breeding program regardless of species. Gotta have the ladies and they will take the longest to get to breeding size/ age. Most females take 2.5 - 3 years at least while a male can be producing viable sperm before 6 months. One male can breed 10+ females a year, and I'm willing to bet a few scaleless hets bred a lot more than that last season.

[SCWood]

So now I've established an answer to this(Thanks for all the feedback!!!), I have one more question. I have a little 300g Silver Streak male (2014) who is 'supposed' to be Liesen Line. I really want to prove him out once we get around to breeding. Is there a specific pairing that can definitely prove him out?

[hazzaram]

I belong to a lot of reptile selling Facebook groups for Canada/Ontario and it amazes me how saturated the market is, not only with normals but with higher end morphs. People can't sell their snakes because so many breed them. Every post is lowering prices and offering special deals because they just want to move the animals out. Normals are either given away (sometimes as an incentive for buying a higher end morph. Buy one get one free!) or sold for $10-$20.

I think Normals are adorable and I'll probably end up with one someday because they're so readily available and cheap. I don't think there's anything wrong with breeding them, personally, but I think you have to be prepared to keep them. If you produce 10 normal hatchlings, you might end up keeping them all because you can't sell them. As long as you're prepared to house and feed that many normals, all the power to you.

I think it would be cool to breed. It seems so exciting. But I would never do it just because there are so many ball pythons. I belong to 6 groups that are ONLY for ball python selling and people posts huge lists of available 'stock'.

What if you tried breeding a different kind of snake that's not readily available in your area? I've been searching desperately for a Rosy Boa but there literally aren't any breeders in my province!! So if I ever decided to breed an animal, that's what it would be, lol.