Can anyone help me with these

[Mustang5]

well, I would like to thank everyone who tried to help. I think with all the time I have invested in this Pastel/whatever that I may just breed him next season to a few norms and then all will be answered, and whats the worst that can happen? i get a few cluches of pastels? that would not upset me. I know that genetics are screwey things and do not always work as we think they will or in manners that they should. I did assume that the het. pied was just that, I know that pied gene messes things up a bit in its hets, but well he is just so odd, and its not just his pattern but his color too. If you all are intrested in how the breeding turns out I will post results when he does breed, again thanks for the help.

Sounds like a good idea pairing the first one with some normals. Keep us updated if you do breed either one of them

[BrianDallek]

Sorry but I'm going to be "that guy" here and suggest you not breed him to some female normals. As breeders we should be selectively breeding for quality clean genetics. That male is a below average example of a pastel (or whatever he is) and there is no reason to further flood the market with pet quality animals. Sorry if this is offensive, but I practically have to give away my normal pastels when I produce them and they are top quality. Just don't want you to be sitting on 20 below average normals and pastels with nobody to take them.

[StillBP]

Sorry but I'm going to be "that guy" here and suggest you not breed him to some female normals. As breeders we should be selectively breeding for quality clean genetics. That male is a below average example of a pastel (or whatever he is) and there is no reason to further flood the market with pet quality animals. Sorry if this is offensive, but I practically have to give away my normal pastels when I produce them and they are top quality. Just don't want you to be sitting on 20 below average normals and pastels with nobody to take them.

I would not take offence to any suggestions and i agree i always try to improve on the genetics that i have however when a snake is hatched out that should not be one of two things have happened, something went wrong and the animal is a defect and should not be allowed to reproduce or it is different and something new could possably come from it.
Now I am not saying that that ball is anything special, so dont get me wrong, but if you look at the first pair of pieds that were bred they were horrid examples of what is now one of the coolest morphs out there. so without knowing why something has happened or what will come from it how could you not take a chance on just one clutch? As for flooding the market a clutch of 4-10 isnt going to do any more damage to the pastel marker and for that matter one of my best friends owns a pet store in pittsburgh that i could drop a cluch at with recomendations they not be bred not that most people would listen but i could try or even donate them to schools for kids to learn there are all kinds of things you can do with non breeders

[BrianDallek]

Got in trouble from the moderator for writing ... In my post. I wanted to come on and give a genuine apology to all those people that found ... offensive and to promise that ... Will not come from me again. I will only use .'s to end sentences and will only use one at a time. Sorry again.

[Mustang5]

Got in trouble from the moderator for writing ... In my post. I wanted to come on and give a genuine apology to all those people that found ... offensive and to promise that ... Will not come from me again. I will only use .'s to end sentences and will only use one at a time. Sorry again.

I didn't find it offensive at all and I totally see what you are saying from a breeders stand point.

[darkranger69]

many people agree with you Brian. this year i bred a splendid citrus pastel enchi to many girls and end with a lot of ugly citrus pastel and citrus enchi but super nice enchi.... i couldn t guess that the citrus pastel gene will involve so much noise and brown out and that the last time i breed him. I bred him to a lemon pastel and got 0.2 lemon enchi and 1.0 citrus enchi: noway i can confuse them , the citrus enchi looks the same as the 2 others from 2 other clutches. the lemon enchi are top quality.

For the OP snake, I sure there is no fire nor spider but i do see the mojave pattern. But as the enchi often have influence on normals or pastel in a clutch I guess the mojave gene could have it too. As state above, i would not bred him unless you see something that we can t see on the pictures or you have hard conviction he carries something else.

the second is a super cool pastel jungle, i would love to have one. none had been proven genetic so far...

[StillBP]

Got in trouble from the moderator for writing ... In my post. I wanted to come on and give a genuine apology to all those people that found ... offensive and to promise that ... Will not come from me again. I will only use .'s to end sentences and will only use one at a time. Sorry again.

even i did not find anything wrong with your post. I asked for opinions and would not ask if I didnt want the truth
I did say I agree with the fact that lesser quality animals should not be bred. Just that i dont understand how I got want people say is just a pastel out of a bel???

[StillBP]

many people agree with you Brian. this year i bred a splendid citrus pastel enchi to many girls and end with a lot of ugly citrus pastel and citrus enchi but super nice enchi.... i couldn t guess that the citrus pastel gene will involve so much noise and brown out and that the last time i breed him. I bred him to a lemon pastel and got 0.2 lemon enchi and 1.0 citrus enchi: noway i can confuse them , the citrus enchi looks the same as the 2 others from 2 other clutches. the lemon enchi are top quality.

For the OP snake, I sure there is no fire nor spider but i do see the mojave pattern. But as the enchi often have influence on normals or pastel in a clutch I guess the mojave gene could have it too. As state above, i would not bred him unless you see something that we can t see on the pictures or you have hard conviction he carries something else.

the second is a super cool pastel jungle, i would love to have one. none had been proven genetic so far...

The only thing he has that does not show on the picture is the color. his color is super bright maybe 2-3x brighter than my normal pastel he is almost lemon yellow but i only have a phone camera to take pictures with and it does not show this. he is realy a pretty snake in person and his orange and yellow are superb