Is pine really that bad/

[Tsanford]

Pine and Cedar still have the toxins in them whether they are kiln dried or not, that is why most breeders avoid them.

Aspen and Cyprus also contain phenols...

I'm not sure what side is conventional wisdom in this debate - that pine is good or pine is bad.

I will throw this into the mix:

Jon and Owen at the EBV use pine.

Tim Spuckler uses it.

Brian Barczyk uses it.

I can go on and on.

So is the conventional wisdom the current internet majority opinion (pine bad) or the old (pine good)?

Like all debates that have their roots in internet mythos, the Great Pine Debate has a fairly traceable arc.

For decades, snake owners used pine shavings for bedding. Pine shaving are all dried by some method or another during processing.

Then fairly recently some people who think they are researchers, doctors and biologists looked at data showing that human beings that worked in paper mills had higher incidences of respiratory illness...and that lab animals kept on softwood bedding had elevated hepatic enzyme levels.

The problem is that without a real scientific background, education or basic ability to draw real conclusions, they made the leap that pine must be bad....and their rantings quickly spread through the internet.

There were no studies showing the effects of pine of reptiles. The rat ladies, gerbil goddesses and bunny mistresses conveniently (or ignorantly) forgot to start screeching that the human disease data was linked to hardwood (aspen) as well as pine along with many other woods. Then they made large leaps in logic and drew connections that did not exist to pine and liver function. They cited studies that did not really prove or disprove their points.

To compound matters, they were prolific in their opinions and now you cannot do a Google search without reading some manifesto about the dangers of pine. So any half wit with an internet connection can scan over this drivel and then get thoroughly misinformed while thinking they are getting informed.

Bottom line: the debate was not a debate until recently, and with the exception of people who lie badly to make their dim-witted points, no one has ever had a snake die due to being housed on pine bedding. No one has ever offered proof that pine causes RIs in snakes, contact dermatitis in snakes, etc. Oh yes, some may vigorously claim it, but none can or are willing to prove it. People can be so married to their opinions.

On the other hand, several well known breeders, and lots of keepers with decades of experience use it without incident....and there are many species who live their lives in aromatic, phenol and resin rich pine litter in the wild.

Hope that helps.

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