Is keeping snakes humane?

[ARBallMorphs]

Just think about the fact most morphs wouldn't even survive in the wild cause of their bright colors or better the lack of camouflage colors and as we all know BP's are ambush hunters and they depend on their camouflage to surprise/ambush their prey

[se7en]

as long as the animal is being properly cared for, it is 1000% humane, for reasons already listed by multiple ppl

[nightrainfalls]

Contrary to what the Peta/Hsus people say, it is more humane to keep snakes, if they are well cared for, than many of the other animals that we keep. Consider which is probably more humanely kept: a highly social animal that spends most of its days tied up in the back yard, waiting for its owners to come home, or a solitary animal that wants to hide in a nice warm spot until food comes by, being allowed to spend all day in a nice warm spot until its regular feeding time.

One is a dog, one is a ball python. Which seems like it is more suited to captive life?

David

[distaff]

Contrary to what the Peta/Hsus people say, it is more humane to keep snakes, if they are well cared for, than many of the other animals that we keep. Consider which is probably more humanely kept: a highly social animal that spends most of its days tied up in the back yard, waiting for its owners to come home, or a solitary animal that wants to hide in a nice warm spot until food comes by, being allowed to spend all day in a nice warm spot until its regular feeding time.

One is a dog, one is a ball python. Which seems like it is more suited to captive life?

David

Excellent point.

[Gio]

If all the proper requirements are met it is VERY humane. It's interesting that 1 out of every 3 houses in parts of Australia have 1 or more carpet pythons living in them, usually the attic. Why would that be? Heat, shelter, and prey attracted to the messes humans make.

In a sense they are caging themselves and living with humans. It's a bit of a stretch to say that, but they are certainly there because their survival requirements are being met.

Add a cage with an even more controlled environment and they have it made. You won't see many signs of distress unless you are keeping several snakes of the same or similar species and the males start to catch some of the pheromones the females release around breeding time. Then you may see cage roaming, and pressing in an effort to breed. But is a constant habitat with warmth, food and water better than living in an attic? Who knows, but I'll bet the snake doesn't care either way. As long as the basic needs are being met they are good to go.

As for as "domesticated" that all depends on what you think it means. Years of captive breeding have certainly led to less defensive animals. They certainly have the same instincts but even those instincts change in captivity over time. Some will not strike prey any longer, some will not constrict but simply eat, some won't eat unless the prey is a certain type, and all the lights are off and it is left in a certain spot in the cage.

Reticulated pythons have been shown to be able to identify their keeper, at least one author has claimed that and some retic keepers will attest to that.

The multitude of colors snakes come in now certainly can't be considered "wild" and many of the bright colored animals would eventually fail and die in the wild. Either by predation or lack of camouflage for ambush hunting.

So you could categorize some captive bred snakes as domestic reptiles I suppose.

For the sake of argument, see how comfortable somebody is standing in a pen with a "domesticated bull". Bull as in cattle/ranch bull.

They (cattle/bulls) are considered domestic animals by most, but they are not "pet domesticated", not predictable and not any safer than a snake.

Roosters are the same, a male chicken is not always going to be something you can go cuddle or hold. Sorry to the cat lovers (this is not a slam), but they retain many "wild" instincts and can turn like a switch. I've been petting a cat and a second later, been bitten and scratched, actually more-so by them than any snake I've held. But cats are domestic, even though they go ferrel quickly and they can and do survive on their own if they get out into the wild.

How about the "domestic rats" we feed?

There are a great many "domestic" animals that would never "keep" in a pet style environment so I'm not sure why snakes can't be considered domesticated in a sense.

I'm sure PETA will always refuse to admit the possibility that snakes, reptiles, or anything has the ability to change or adapt to captivity as they are leading a charge to ban them.

In reality when it comes to an "easy keeper" for a pet, snakes are a good one.

I have to pay a facility to watch our dogs when we leave town but with the snakes, I change the water, add an extra water bowl and feed them before we leave.

10 day trip is no problem. The downside is they aren't excited to see me when we get back like the dogs are LOL!

All food for thought, but the bottom line is there is nothing cruel about keeping a snake if you are doing it properly.

[BPSnape]

Well all arguments/discussions concerning what sort of cognitive abilities snakes have, it is a given fact that captive bred are well cared for in most cases. Certainly by everyone here I would guess. I think it helps to think of domestic animal enclosures as homes rather than cages. In the short time I've had my BP, he seems to enjoy being handled, but when I lower him to his home, he goes in on his own. Likewise the dwarf hamster and every pet rodent I've ever had. Same goes for dogs that are accustomed to being crated at night. All of those animals have very different levels of cognitive abilities, and every one that is kept by a responsible person feels that is their den/safe place. Their bed, treats or toys where applicable are all there. To me it's no more cruel than putting a child into a playpen to keep him/her safe while you are cooking dinner, or into a crib with bars until they are old enough to be safe. In my opinion pets are much like a perpetual child. We remain responsible to them for the entirety of their lives.

[8_Ball]

Ball pythons are not really domesticated. They're identical in make to wild pythons, and the only differences between a wild and CB ball python are learned responses(CB have learned being picked up isn't going to end in them being eaten) and health(generally wild will have more infestations and less nutrition than a CB). Keeping several generations of BP doesn't make them domesticated, especially when they haven't been bred with any inclination towards more "domestic" behaviors or shape.

I disagree with this statement. Have you seen wild caught or captive hatched ball pythons or other snakes and how defensive they are compared to captive bred specimens? We are breeding lines of ball pythons so distant from the first generation lineage that they are becoming more and more hardy and relaxed. How are you going to compare a "domestic" hamster who will most likely bite out of fear or try to run away to a ball python that will adapt to tolerate handling by humans and just relax? I don't know about you but my snakes seemed way more "domesticated" then some of the hamsters, Guinea pigs, etc that I've dealt with as a child. Reptiles are becoming somewhat domesticated if PETA or HSUS like it or not. We haven't had hundreds of years of selected breeding with reptiles but we are getting there. And I'm talking about the most popular bred reptiles like ball pythons. Domestication is basically defined as taming down and breeding that results in physically altered changes. Do we not breed for physical appearances with ball pythons not found in wild stock? You know a type of moth, a beta fish, and a goldfish are all considered domesticated and still have wild instincts like their ancestors.

[Snake Judy]

I disagree with this statement. Have you seen wild caught or captive hatched ball pythons or other snakes and how defensive they are compared to captive bred specimens? We are breeding lines of ball pythons so distant from the first generation lineage that they are becoming more and more hardy and relaxed. How are you going to compare a "domestic" hamster who will most likely bite out of fear or try to run away to a ball python that will adapt to tolerate handling by humans and just relax? I don't know about you but my snakes seemed way more "domesticated" then some of the hamsters, Guinea pigs, etc that I've dealt with as a child. Reptiles are becoming somewhat domesticated if PETA or HSUS like it or not. We haven't had hundreds of years of selected breeding with reptiles but we are getting there. And I'm talking about the most popular bred reptiles like ball pythons. Domestication is basically defined as taming down and breeding that results in physically altered changes. Do we not breed for physical appearances with ball pythons not found in wild stock? You know a type of moth, a beta fish, and a goldfish are all considered domesticated and still have wild instincts like their ancestors.

Are any snake breeders really looking at temperament when pairing animals, though? It seems to me like it's low on the priority list, but I'm not in the breeder circuit so I don't really know if that's being taken into consideration. Is there really a notable difference between a captive hatched python and a captive bred one? The placid nature of ball pythons is one of the things that made them so popular in the pet trade in the first place. I don't think that can be called domestication.

[kiiarah]

Are any snake breeders really looking at temperament when pairing animals, though? It seems to me like it's low on the priority list, but I'm not in the breeder circuit so I don't really know if that's being taken into consideration. Is there really a notable difference between a captive hatched python and a captive bred one? The placid nature of ball pythons is one of the things that made them so popular in the pet trade in the first place. I don't think that can be called domestication.

That is an interesting question. I know I have thought about the possibility of breeding my remarkably tolerant and even tempered pastel. I doubt I ever will, but it has crossed my mind that his temperament is so fantastic that it would be marvelous to carry on his calm disposition into a new generation. I assume that temperament is something that can be continued and refined through genetics, though I admittedly have very little knowledge when it comes to breeding. That being said, I agree with you that the focus seems to be on the morph and not their personality. I have never seen an ad discussing the parents disposition, but see het _____ all the time. I would sure love the opportunity to meet and interact with a wild ball python. I think it would be fascinating to observe what differences, if any, they have in behavior when compared to their CB relatives. Do you suppose they would be just as docile as the ones found in the pet trade?

[Snake Judy]

The goal of anyone keeping reptiles or amphibians (or any pet, actually) should be:

a) to keep stress to an absolute minimum, and
b) to allow the animal to express as much natural behavior as reasonably possible

If that can be done in captivity, I don't think it's inhumane. Some species, such as ball pythons, are pretty well suited to captivity, because their natures are not contrary to being kept in a tight space and their basic needs are easily met, though I do think a lot of keepers get by with the bare minimum.

It gets a little hazier when very active or very large species are being kept, because of the enclosure size that can realistically be provided by most people.

I don't think that “well, they'd have a much harder time in the wild” is a good rationalization. An animal living in the environment that it is perfectly adapted to is always ideal. That's where it's meant to be. We do our best to emulate that in our husbandry. I'm not talking about morphs here, because those are designed by humans, not nature.