Why do hot rocks burn, and heat pads not (as much)

[kitedemon]

I was lucky enough to be 'included' at a talk at the USF exotic vet conference a few years ago it was an idea bantered around then. That thermal burns are linked to low ambient air temps. When I asked him about pain receptors he said that pain response to heat was used for years with a variety of herps. That is all, there is no studies it was a idea bantered around nothing more. No vet will accept a theory with out data, It is sound as it fits all the criteria. There is a big difference between contact burns (they can always happen) and durational burns.

The first time I had a stat fail every animal in the failed rack was against the cool side, at the coolest part they could get to. My ambients temps are always spot on. This response is completely different to others that have no stat incorrect ambients and burnt snakes. It doesn't fit that one set of royals would move away from overly hot surface temps and a second set would not. It does make sense that if your other temps are off there is a different response.

If they could not tell hot surface from cool, could they thermoregulate at all?

Would not in every case of an overly hot surface (100ºF-130ºF) result in burns?

They would never get burns on the dorsal side if they feel heat better but yet that also happens. I have rescued animals that were burned from a side mounted uncontrolled UTH. There is not explanation that fits all of these but a low ambient air temp.

Yes we should always prevent burns. Every temp should be held correct, ambients included and every stat should be backed by a failsafe. Every heat source should not have a max temp over 100ºF. Too bad that is not always true.

[Albert Clark]

I always thought that reptiles could sense the heat as evidenced by their thermoregulatory movements. The information put forth by Deborah, Eric and Kitedemon was very enlightening. Thank you.

[Eric Alan]

I was lucky enough to be 'included' at a talk at the USF exotic vet conference a few years ago it was an idea bantered around then. That thermal burns are linked to low ambient air temps. When I asked him about pain receptors he said that pain response to heat was used for years with a variety of herps. That is all, there is no studies it was a idea bantered around nothing more. No vet will accept a theory with out data, It is sound as it fits all the criteria. There is a big difference between contact burns (they can always happen) and durational burns.

Very interesting. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that conference.

If they could not tell hot surface from cool, could they thermoregulate at all? Would not in every case of an overly hot surface (100ºF-130ºF) result in burns?

It's equally silly to think they have a complete insensitivity to temperature differences. Of course thermoregulation depends on the ability to discern differences in temperature. I'm just not sure that it's the same as you and I would do so. I'm sure you're just asking those questions to provoke thought and conversation, though.

Yes we should always prevent burns. Every temp should be held correct, ambients included and every stat should be backed by a failsafe. Every heat source should not have a max temp over 100ºF. Too bad that is not always true.

In a perfect world, right?

[kitedemon]

Eric Alan, absolutely not the way we feel heat at all. It is so very hard to project how senses work. All anyone can do is guess, I believe there is some credence to the ambient temp and durational thermal burns. (contact burns are easy, it is really hot, touch it and you are burned instantly)

It fits the things we know and fits the evidence. That makes it a good theory, testing a theory will make it fact but I am unsure if anyone will ever test such a thing? It means placing an animal in position to become burned. The people whom are most interested are not likely to purposely subject a snake to the potential to be burned. It may remain just an idea for some time but it is a good thought anyway and fits experiences we all have seen or heard of.

Nothing more than a theory. It is not fact as it has not been tested at all.

[Daniel.michelle]

OP what kinds of animals are you trying to keep? You said lizards right? What kinds, monitors, tegus?

Anyway, the main problem with heat rocks is that they heat unevenly. The rock can be 95° except in certain small spots that can get up to 130-150°. The animal will bask on it even if it feels the hurt, and will continue to bask because the rest of the surface is comfortable. Heat tape is far more stable temp wise as well as heat lights.

Plus they don't realize it's the rock hurting them, to them it just looks and feels like a warm rock.

This is the same reason flood lights are better than spot bulbs. You have to heat the whole animal evenly. 5 minutes basking at 120°(at least in most lizards) is far better than basking 45 minutes at 95° with a small spot at 120°, that's when burns happen.