Let's Discuss Dietary Requirements for Ball Pythons

[Skiploder]

Of course this all makes sense. In a world where common sense is closer to an oxymoron than a standard, I was under the impression that much of this was pretty straightforward information. To be honest, I'd have been surprised if the studies had found

If it's so straightforward, then why are people over feeding their snakes? We've been dancing for five pages and no one drew that simple conclusion. Sometimes common sense and common practice are not the same.

Drymarchon bask, but many people who keep them don't provide them with basking spots.
Ball pythons don't normally bask, but many people who keep them provide them with basking spots.

We advise giving a ball python three thermoregulation zones in captivity, but in reality they by and large choose one site in the wild that changes slightly as the day progresses....then they emerge to cooler temps at night.

Ever thought that since temps and digestion go hand in hand that we are stimulating them to consume more by providing them 92 degree hot spots to lay on?

[Eric Alan]

Ever thought that since temps and digestion go hand in hand that we are stimulating them to consume more by providing them 92 degree hot spots to lay on?

Sure I have - every time I look at an annual climate map of their home area. You mostly see average highs in the low-upper 80s and average lows in the mid-upper 70s depending on the time of year.

In a perfect world, would it be cool to have a thermostat and heat source that could replicate these daily temperature fluctuations? Of course. Would that be better for their long-term health than providing them with a consistent temperature gradient that captured this range on a daily basis? I'm not sure.

In recent time, I've become quite a bit less concerned with skipped meals from the standpoint of "because they ate, I am doing things right". These days a skipped meal upsets me more from the standpoint of "I should have known better" because I'm trying to become more observant of individual snake's feeding habits. Also, because I feed mostly frozen/thawed rats, a missed meal = money wasted. I've actually changed my feeding schedule (split into two days vs one), and in-tune feeding amount (there are no longer "leftovers" to feed to snakes who already ate on that day), to reflect this mindset.

[Skiploder]

So, my set up is unique in that I have a separate building for my reptiles. I also do not keep anything but varanids, heloderms, and colubrids these days. I sold off my boids years ago. Our tortoises are kept outside in pens.

The building is kept at roughly 73 to 75 degrees during the day. Everything I have basks, so they are given basking sites of some sort. The front of the building is about 35% window, so temps increase slightly during the day. During the summer I let temps drop uncontrolled at night and during the winter I control the drop.

Now, if I were to use the same building for ball pythons, I would experiment around to find an ambient temperature in the building that lowers to about 77 degrees at night and allows for a range of about 82 to 88 in the enclosures depending on the time of the day.

I would also not provide a hot spot, but a slightly - very slightly - warmer basking spot during the first few hours of the night to stimulate the elective behavior of finding some residual heat after the sun goes down.

I think that once dialed in, I could provide a natural cycle.

Anyway, enough of the circular talk. Bottom line is I think as a group, captive snakes are overfed because people don't bother to take the time to do any research on them. We take someone's word instead of perusing studies and literature on the subject. Eric, some of these studies are almost 40 years old...the information is out there, we just choose to ignore it.

The problem with that if you make a list of everyone on this forum today...you will find that in 4 years many of them are gone. Some go away because they don't enjoy the interaction, some because they eventually see no point in it, but a lot go away simply because people do not tend to stay with this hobby that long.

One of the reasons I stopped breeding reptiles is because I always included a right of first refusal agreement with my sales. I haven't gone back to crunch the numbers but I would guess that more than half of the animals were returned to me. The number one reason? Eventual disinterest.

In other words, a lot of the advice that is given out is by people who don't spend a lot of time in the hobby and who are just repeating what someone else who hasn't spent a lot of time in the hobby told them.

On another thread, a member talked about how her ball python died of fatty liver disease and how the vet observed how overfed these animals are. There's a good reason for this...it's a lifestyle disease that we force on these animals.

I would argue there is no one "right way" to feed your ball python. Ball pythons themselves in the wild follow their own caloric fulfillment habits based on their individual activities. I do feel that there is a "wrong way" and that is following a blanket pattern without questioning it.

[Eric Alan]

So, my set up is unique in that I have a separate building for my reptiles. I also do not keep anything but varanids, heloderms, and colubrids these days. I sold off my boids years ago. Our tortoises are kept outside in pens.

The building is kept at roughly 73 to 75 degrees during the day. Everything I have basks, so they are given basking sites of some sort. The front of the building is about 35% window, so temps increase slightly during the day. During the summer I let temps drop uncontrolled at night and during the winter I control the drop.

Now, if I were to use the same building for ball pythons, I would experiment around to find an ambient temperature in the building that lowers to about 77 degrees at night and allows for a range of about 82 to 88 in the enclosures depending on the time of the day.

I would also not provide a hot spot, but a slightly - very slightly - warmer basking spot during the first few hours of the night to stimulate the elective behavior of finding some residual heat after the sun goes down.

I think that once dialed in, I could provide a natural cycle.

The inner perfectionist in me just found a proportional thermostat available that can make daily/monthly adjustments to lighting/humidity/temperature based upon preset climate zones (that are fully customizable). In my own perfect little world, I would love to have that kind of flexibility. Perhaps some day...

[200xth]

In recent time, I've become quite a bit less concerned with skipped meals from the standpoint of "because they ate, I am doing things right".

It used to annoy me when mine wouldn't eat. Some of them ate every single week, but some would eat 3 weeks in a row, take 2 weeks off, eat once, then two more weeks off, etc. It was frustrating me a bit.

Then I realized I was trying to force some of them to do something I wanted them to do, not something they needed or wanted.

So the ones who ate less consistently started getting fed less regularly. Once every two weeks. It took up to a month for them to get with the program, but once they got on track they started eating more consistently, just less often. Their health is fine, their growth is fine, and we're all happier.

I also feed smaller. Nothing gets larger than a 60g rat, most of the time they are in the 40g to 50g range. Once in a while if someone doesn't eat, one of the hungrier girls will pick up a second meal, but even then the total food for a meal never surpasses 100g (and that is only a couple of times a year).

I even started feeding multiple types of prey. Rats, mice, and chicks. Only a few of mine will eat all three so they get the most variety, but all of the others (except 1) will eat at least two types of food (rats & mice, rats & chicks, or chicks & mice), so they all get some variety. No idea if it actually improved anything for them, but they eat a varied diet in the wild, so they'll get it here while they're with me.

I never worry about skipped meals anymore. If they skip a few times, I start looking at changing their schedule, but otherwise the meal goes to a garbage collector, and the snake stays on it's schedule next time around.