Growing vs buying proven females

[jplehmann]

Interested in thoughts of pros/cons of growing your own female breeder versus buying a proven one already "at size".

Pros:
* Potentially less expensive to buy a proven, since growing any female to size is going to cost at least something like: initial cost + 2 years x $15/month = ~$350 (plus or minus depending on how much you value the food, electricity, your time, space). It seems like this case is easily made for normal females, which can be purchased for $100 or so. Perhaps the more genes, the more expensive buying a proven is, and at some point it's cheaper to grow her yourself?

Cons:
* Provens being sold are on average less productive producers. Some but not all are probably passed on because they are inferior to others the breeders are using. Maybe they lay more slugs or smaller clutches on average.

Are these thoughts reasonable? And what other factors have I missed? I'd like to breed for first time next year, and my current plan is to buy some mature females next fall. But this strategy will impact my future years.

[Eramyl]

I have done both. My initial collection were all yearlings that I'm growing up. After a year, I got in good with a breeder I trust, and he has sent me some of his breeders to boost my plans by 5 or more years. The issue for me was that he breeds year round, where I start in the winter. Now I have to change my schedule to accommodate the snakes. While inconvienient now, it may be beneficial later.

If you do buy proven breeders, get the from a trusted source and stay away from collection sales. You still will need to qt the snakes, but your more likely to get good females.

[chrisv]

Interested in thoughts of pros/cons of growing your own female breeder versus buying a proven one already "at size".

Pros:
* Potentially less expensive to buy a proven, since growing any female to size is going to cost at least something like: initial cost + 2 years x $15/month = ~$350 (plus or minus depending on how much you value the food, electricity, your time, space). It seems like this case is easily made for normal females, which can be purchased for $100 or so. Perhaps the more genes, the more expensive buying a proven is, and at some point it's cheaper to grow her yourself?
.

With bulk feeders, you can get this closer to $8/ month.

The real reason to raise your own females is that you may have a hard time even finding adult or near adult size females of the more interesting morphs. Multi-gene animals can be expensive even as hatchlings. Ig you are only talking about buying normals, then I would say go for adults if you can find a breeder that you trust is selling you young captive bred females.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

* Provens being sold are on average less productive producers. Some but not all are probably passed on because they are inferior to others the breeders are using. Maybe they lay more slugs or smaller clutches on average.

Because a breeder sells a proven breeder does not mean the animal is inferior.

You have to understand that as a breeder your space is limited and there is a constant need to upgrade your collection year after year, so single gene females replace normals, 2 genes replace single genes etc.

Even if you buy an hatchling there is no guarantee that the animal will breed and if it does it won't be slugs

[aalomon]

I like getting females in the 800-1000g range for a few reasons.

1. Since they arent breeding size yet, theres absolutely no temptation to shorted quarantine to get that lock youre just dying for. At the end of 6 months they should be about perfect size.

2. Youre still getting a good size girl, but you there can be a decent price jump between "proven" and females who havent bred yet.

3. Youre still saving a year or so in feeders/housing/time...worth the price difference to me.

Just what works for me. Ive bought females from 60g-3500g but 800-1000g seems to work the best for me when they are available.

[ajmreptiles]

Because a breeder sells a proven breeder does not mean the animal is inferior.

You have to understand that as a breeder your space is limited and there is a constant need to upgrade your collection year after year, so single gene females replace normals, 2 genes replace single genes etc.

The fact that there are far more small breeders than the likes of BHB, NERD, Willbanks, ect is why I believe is the most common reason you see proven breeders for sale. Not everyone can afford to have a huge facility and many use a spare room in their house.

[jplehmann]

In summary, here are the arguments on either side:

Buy your breeder:

• save time
• cheaper for lower end snakes (at least $200 for 2yrs + initial)
• safer bet if from trusted source: even one you grow, if it breeds might produce only slugs

Grow your breeder:

• for more expensive morphs might save a lot of money by taking the time.
• safer than getting less-than-average snake from untrusted source
• could be hard to find the morph you want to buy

[MrLang]

Buying 800-1000g snakes at discounts is a strategic way to go about it. Many people get their snake to this size and they hit the 1000g wall. Breeder gets frustrated, sells the snake. Very often going to a new home stimulates them to start feeding again and you're most of the way to a breeder and know they don't have any retained sperm from a male you didn't want her bred to.

There's one more consideration for your list - retained sperm from a male you didn't want her bred to can throw a wrench in your plans. You may be very excited that your high end super male breeds her and she ovulates and lays, and after all that work you have a bunch of normals and spiders pop out of the eggs.