Why not to cohabitate any snake

[Foolish1]

The cohabulation proclamation of transportation herein.

[calmolly1]

The comment I made was not intended to be used as "evidence". I was referring to the new folks to the snake world (including myself) who aren't aware of the dangers of putting snakes together, whether it be living, transporting, hanging out at home or at reptile shows. I posted a few months ago asking whether it was safe for my boa and ball to be out of their tubs at the same time. I wanted to know if the baby boa would eat the baby BP. I don't think I had much response or I missed it but used my common sense and decided what I thought was safe and the least stress for the snakes. Not everyone has any sense, and even less use it. I have no idea who skiploader is or what he does with his snakes and was in no way attacking him! Or anyone else with far better knowledge and judgement than myself. But I have seen a few ugly back and forths between the new snake owner buying two snakes "who love each other" and the old hands. Mostly saying don't do it unless you know what you are doing. I just felt like those pictures would be a wake up call at what MIGHT happen. Because some folks have no sense...


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[Paul's Pieds]

well we have generated a discussion from which i find both sides interesting

but

i do have a worry now. I kept snakes for many years before circumstances changed that and i am getting back into it. i have bred before, several species but now i am worried about something that has never troubled me before

It seems the possibility does exist for a snake to harm another whilst kept together for mating. What are the ways to avoid or reduce the likelihood of this happening ?

All opinions greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

[dr del]

well we have generated a discussion from which i find both sides interesting

but

i do have a worry now. I kept snakes for many years before circumstances changed that and i am getting back into it. i have bred before, several species but now i am worried about something that has never troubled me before

It seems the possibility does exist for a snake to harm another whilst kept together for mating. What are the ways to avoid or reduce the likelihood of this happening ?

All opinions greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

To be fair it is extraordinarily rare for things like this to happen - that's why you always seem to see the same pictures posted when people ask about cannibalism. I think this is only the third set of pictures I have ever seen of BP on BP cannibalism.

The best preventatives I can think of for it to happen during mating as the same ones you should be doing anyway before during and after mating. Have well fed, unstressed snakes and keep an eye on things. Oh and double check the sexes before you try any pairings.

Oddly it makes me think more about some of the tricks we see for trouble feeders "put them in a small dark enclosure with the prey" and "take them for a drive"

[SaintTawny]

Not bashing. You called out people who cohabitate. You used this example as why to not cohabitate.

I cohabitate. You called out what I do. I'm vocal about it.

It's a bad example and the wrong conclusion to draw from this incident.

Your poop sample example is flawed also. I've covered it before, as have other experienced keepers who cohabitate.

For the record, I don't recommend cohabitation...my disclaimer is that it shouldn't be practice by everyone and with select species.

What I do recommend is that people don't bash something they don't do. I also recommend that people apply logic and experience to their advice.

I recommend that people who can barely crap out the rent, who can't afford vet care, who can't afford proper husbandry tools refrain from buying snakes.

...and that people stick to talking about what they have direct experience with.

How much experience do you have with a wide variety of species? How much cohabitation have you practiced? How many cases of spontaneous disease have you encountered in your established collection? What are your quarantine practices? Can you name species that are known to cohabitate peacefully and also which species are next to impossible to breed unless you cohabitate them year round?

You want to have a valid voice on this topic, let everyone know your expertise on it. You already stated you don't cohabitate. As far as I'm concerned, you don't get to weigh in with any legitimacy.

Now if you want to draw this as an example on the danger of packing a lot of snakes together and placing them in a stressful situation...I'm behind you 100%. But do not apply this act of utter stupidity to the responsible practice of keeping snakes together. Do not attempt to use this dumb incident as a rallying point to shame people who cohabitate.

Unless you can speak with any authority on the subject. If you can, I'll gladly listen.

Why do you always take these things personally? The blanket statement about what a bad idea cohabitation is is very obviously not an attack on your methods. You can cohab peacefully and walk away from these conversations without turning it into a crusade. There are no snake police who are going to come harass you for your housing situation. The general idea is that average joe can't/shouldn't cohabitate, and you yourself agree with this statement, and that's exactly what every post I've seen you get offended by boiled down to, but you still find reason to make it about yourself.

[Daigga]

While perhaps not a good example as to why cohabitating snakes is a bad idea in general, I would say it's a good example to present to newer snake keepers who think cohabitation is a good way to save money/space. Bear in mind that many new keepers come to these forums thinking mouse pinkies/fuzzies are a good sized food to have their hatchlings on, and I have corrected countless people that think any snake species should only eat once a month if that. Now imagine those inexperienced keepers housing more than one of these snakes together, even in conditions that otherwise might be able to support two or more snakes?

Can cohabitation work? Sure. I don't do it, but I acknowledge that some people do so successfully. Do I think new keepers/those who don't know what they're doing should give it a try? Absolutely not. If someone comes here asking a series of questions about how to keep their new BPs and one of them is can I keep them together, I'll say no every time.

[OhhWatALoser]

Why do you always take these things personally? The blanket statement about what a bad idea cohabitation is is very obviously not an attack on your methods. You can cohab peacefully and walk away from these conversations without turning it into a crusade. There are no snake police who are going to come harass you for your housing situation. The general idea is that average joe can't/shouldn't cohabitate, and you yourself agree with this statement, and that's exactly what every post I've seen you get offended by boiled down to, but you still find reason to make it about yourself.

I read the title of this thread, the first post, and then the picture and I have to disagree with you on almost every account. The title is a direct attack on his methods and thats all it is. The reason to not walk away from these conversations is to educate people and prevent the further spread of misinformation (which in general is a huge problem in this hobby). The blind attack on cohabitation still happens, my evidence, this thread. The OP was mistaken and skip set the record straight. Some people learned something today. I've been set straight on a few subjects in the same way, we all can acquire misinformation, it happens.

What we are seeing has nothing to do with cohabitation and the result of a severely under fed snake. The title of this thread sets to tone for something completely different. "This is why you should feed your snakes" would be a more appropriate title.

Also, I can't believe someone would bring snakes like that to a show and I have to assume it was with the intent to sell them....

[albinos_rule]

Someone around here is always butthurt about something. I guess they woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or "didn't get any" last night..Not to mention any names, but maybe they should crawl back "under their pile of wood" I have always been told to never co-habitate snakes, and that is what is "preached" on this forum. Then when someone posts something like this they are immediately jumped on like a dog for posting what might happen with co-habitation. Wrapping up I will say this is VERY POOR forum for beginners to learn anything, because when a new person asks a question, and they get 20 answers, all completely different, and every reply says THEIR method is the gospel...What is a new person supposed to believe?!?!?!?!? I am no snake expert, and I learn new things every day, and some of my methods are outside the box, but they work for me. Thank God I learned what I know now long before I had a computer to visit forums on the internet...I take 99.9% of all the advice on this forum with a huge grain of salt. Sure sucks for people new to ball pythons wanting the best information for their reptile pets...

[ajmreptiles]

Now let's focus on the real issue here

It is beyond me why anyone would even try to sell ANY animal that looks like that. That is an animal that is in piss poor shape to say the least. I understand ball pythons can be really picky eaters, but if I had that animal in a group of animals that are supposed to be for sale, that animal would not be included until I am satisfied that it is 100% healthy and eating on a regular basis. The ball python market is so saturated that to build a good reputation quality is one of the top things you need. Its not only selective breeder stock, but assuring that your animals are healthy as well. If I saw that snake on anyone's table for sale, I would not buy from them no matter what else they had. Thats just my 2 cents on this thread

[PitOnTheProwl]

It is beyond me why anyone would even try to sell ANY animal that looks like that. That is an animal that is in piss poor shape to say the least. I understand ball pythons can be really picky eaters, but if I had that animal in a group of animals that are supposed to be for sale, that animal would not be included until I am satisfied that it is 100% healthy and eating on a regular basis. The ball python market is so saturated that to build a good reputation quality is one of the top things you need. Its not only selective breeder stock, but assuring that your animals are healthy as well. If I saw that snake on anyone's table for sale, I would not buy from them no matter what else they had. Thats just my 2 cents on this thread

Remember there are TONs of people that are flipping and/or just wanting to make a quick buck too.
It makes us all look bad.

Again, as far keeping snakes together. I still wont recommend it but I am open to discussing it.
Then again I recommend a vet trip for an RI but many of you already know I have never needed to make a vet trip for the 2 RI cases I had or the several that were left in my care.