Orangebelly Color Change

[BPSnakeLady]

I've never had it happen to me personally, but there have been several snakes that this has happened to over the years. It's not genetic and some have theorized that it's the result of a bacterial infection but I don't think that's ever been proven. Generally people have reported that it started with an odd rather waxy looking defecation followed by a shed that appeared to be thicker then normal. I'm not sure if anyone has ever figured out how it happens, but it appears to strip away the top layer of pigment and gradually replaces it with melanine. It certainly is odd and I've never heard of it happening twice to the same person.

Didnt RDR do a vid on youtube about it? I seem to remember seeing one on it.

[MarkS]

Yup, it happened to Ralph, I know he has it somewhere in his blog notes. Bob Clark too, he had a spider that this suddenly happened to. He posted pictures of it online without any explanation and everyone got all excited thinking he had produced the first axanthic spider.

[Slowcountry Balls]

I've never had it happen to me personally, but there have been several snakes that this has happened to over the years. It's not genetic and some have theorized that it's the result of a bacterial infection but I don't think that's ever been proven. Generally people have reported that it started with an odd rather waxy looking defecation followed by a shed that appeared to be thicker then normal. I'm not sure if anyone has ever figured out what is actually going on, but it appears to strip away the top layer of pigment and gradually replaces it with melanine. It certainly is odd and I've never heard of it happening twice to the same person.

Didnt RDR do a vid on youtube about it? I seem to remember seeing one on it.

Yup, it happened to Ralph, I know he has it somewhere in his blog notes. Bob Clark too, he had a spider that this suddenly happened to. He posted pictures of it online without any explanation and everyone got all excited thinking he had produced the first axanthic spider.

Here is a link to a YouTube video that Ralph Davis did on the "Over Night" change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0BON9anGVE

Some thoughts about your post (I am not trying to argue, just discuss and point out the observations that I have made, I only have 3 seasons of breeding, so there is still a lot that I have to learn):

First - if it were bacterial, wouldn't it be more likely to spread? Especially to snakes in tubs near by?

Second - I have had this happen now twice in 2 years

Third - it has happened to animals sired by the same male

Fourth - it occurred to animals with the Orangebelly gene, not any of his normal offspring

Fifth - I have never observed an unusual deification from either of the 2 animals that this happened to

Sixth - neither animal exhibited a thicker than normal shed, all of their sheds have seemed very normal

Seventh - the change has been very gradual. You wouldn't really notice it unless you had other examples of the morph to compare to until they are almost Axanthic like

Based on these observations, I do not think what is happening to my animals is the same as what Ralph Davis has documented in his video. I also would think that there might be a genetic component because it has happened to 2 animals 2 years in a row, both from the same male, both with the Orangebelly gene. That is a lot of coincidence. Just some thoughts and observations.

[MarkS]

Based on these observations, I do not think what is happening to my animals is the same as what Ralph Davis has documented in his video. I also would think that there might be a genetic component because it has happened to 2 animals 2 years in a row, both from the same male, both with the Orangebelly gene. That is a lot of coincidence. Just some thoughts and observations.

Who knows? you might be right. Only time will tell.

[Bagel&CreamCheese]

im subscribing to this one! great collections you have!

[Viol8r]

Do you plan on breeding the 2 offspring together? I'm curious of the outcome of that pairing...

[rlditmars]

Do you plan on breeding the 2 offspring together? I'm curious of the outcome of that pairing...

I would be curious about this too. However, there could be a significant difference as we should be talking about an all white snake barring any anomolies, since two OB's make an Ivory and an Ivory is the only way you would gaurentee both parents passed the gene that is suspected to carry the trait. Also, since the subject snake does not seem to be throwing the trait in every offspring, it could be a hit and miss situation even with both parents exhibiting the trait. Best of luck whatever you do.

[Slowcountry Balls]

I would be curious about this too. However, there could be a significant difference as we should be talking about an all white snake barring any anomolies, since two OB's make an Ivory and an Ivory is the only way you would gaurentee both parents passed the gene that is suspected to carry the trait. Also, since the subject snake does not seem to be throwing the trait in every offspring, it could be a hit and miss situation even with both parents exhibiting the trait. Best of luck whatever you do.

I had thought about the Ivory issue too. I still plan on pairing them together for the 2015-2016 season. I think it will still give me the best chance of seeing if there is a genetic component to this color change.

For this season (2014-2015) I'm pairing the founding male with 3 of his daughters from the 2011-2012 season, a normal, a Pastel, and a Pastel Orangebelly. I'm hoping that this line breeding will help give some insight into this puzzle.

[Joe Massey]

very interesteng.. pairing wierdo and wiedette might lead to something else.. that's gonna be something.

[TessadasExotics]

MarkS you are incorrect about what you are saying......

What you are referring to is when over night the snake will lose all color. People wrongly refer to it as IMG. We have a snake that this has happened to. This issue is completely different. It also looks to be genetic. Otherwise how else did it happen to 2 different clutches in the same tree?
This looks like it may actually be an IMG snake.