Orangebelly Color Change

[Slowcountry Balls]

So this is going to be a long post with lots of pictures. I am trying to cover 2 seasons of breeding with some very unique results. Last year, 1 of the Orangebelly males that I produced in 2012 underwent a really cool color change, going almost Axanthic, then turning very dark. I thought it was a unique, random occurrence, until a female Orangebelly that I produced last year began the same change. I am posting this looking for any help that others may be able to give.

It started when I purchased a 2009 male Orangebelly from Adam Chesla at the November 2010 Repticon in Columbia, South Carolina. I purchased this animal because Adam told me about the Graphite Ivories that the Orangebelly line sometimes produces and because this male Orangebelly looked really cool. You can see this male here:

Or at World of Ball Pythons (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/orange-belly/).

In the 2011-2012 season, he sired 3 clutches that produced 4 male Orangebellies and a female Pastel Orangebelly. All of his Orangebelly sons looked similar to him, but not quite the same. Here are 2 pictures of the 2 sibling male Orangebellies:
2012 Clutch 6 Male 1

2012 Clutch 6 Male 3



For the first year and a half, I did not notice anything unique about any of the siblings. I traded 1 to a friend. Then, when getting ready for the March 2014 Savannah, Georgia Repticon show, I noticed that 1 of the 2012 Clutch 6 males was getting lighter. Here is a picture that shows the difference (the male that is getting lighter is 2012 Clutch 6 Male 3 in the middle of his Orangebelly brother and Orangebelly half brother).


In May of 2014, I took some more pictures to see how his color had changed.


Shown with his 2012 half sibling Orangebelly brother (1 of the 2 normal looking Orangebellies in the previous comparison picture).


Then in June, I noticed that he was getting darker (shown with his father on top and 2012 half brother Orangebelly brother):


Here is another picture of the same 3 snakes from July 2014:


Here is what he looks like now (pictures are from August 2014)





As I said, I thought this was a random occurrance, until a 2013 female Orangebelly started to go through a similar change. She is still in the lightening up phase. I expect that she will darken up like her older half brother.

Here is her in August 2014:



And here she is on Saturday, November 29, 2014:




And here are 2 pictures of the 2012 "normal" Orangebelly, 2012 "Weirdo" Orangebelly, and the 2013 "Weirdette" Orangebelly:



Well, I look forward to hearing what you guys think. Obviously I have a new project on my hands. Any help would be appreciated.

[Shamri]

The changes are so dramatic! I have no professional opinions to add, but I look forward to hearing all the theories and updates!

[T_Sauer]

........ ........

Very interesting ... I will be following this post

[Sammiebob]

Well I'm definitely hooked; subscribed to this thread. I'd love to have one of those babies some day. Possible new gene at play here.

[Bowlshot]

I lurk a lot but I'm sticking for this one


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[Viol8r]

Seems like an odd color shift over such a short period of time...

[rlditmars]

Well,
I have no explanation but I would like to add that I met a lady walking around Repticon Atlanta a couple years back. She was carrying a similar looking snake. It was just a normal but it was so black you almost couldn't see the pattern in it, sort of like an adult Black Rat Snake. I asked her what it was and she said she purchased it as a normal and a year or two later it started to change and then just kept getting darker. Until I saw this thread I hadn't seen anything else like it. It's interesting that only a couple have shown the trait and the animal throwing it doesn't show any sign of it. Was it the same pairing that produced all of the subjects?

[Slowcountry Balls]

Seems like an odd color shift over such a short period of time...

The 2012 male Orangebelly took over 16 months to start the change, and took about 4-5 months to complete the change. The 2013 female took over 13 months to start the change and we'll see how long it takes her to complete it. It has been about 1 1/2 to 2 months, and 2 or 3 sheds to go from her starting color, to where she is now.

Well,
I have no explanation but I would like to add that I met a lady walking around Repticon Atlanta a couple years back. She was carrying a similar looking snake. It was just a normal but it was so black you almost couldn't see the pattern in it, sort of like an adult Black Rat Snake. I asked her what it was and she said she purchased it as a normal and a year or two later it started to change and then just kept getting darker. Until I saw this thread I hadn't seen anything else like it. It's interesting that only a couple have shown the trait and the animal throwing it doesn't show any sign of it. Was it the same pairing that produced all of the subjects?

It is very interesting that the founding animal hasn't gone through this color change. However, he has a unique color and blushing of his own. The 2 Orangebellies to show this color change are from 2 different females. I have 3 more male Orangebellies from last season. 2 are from the same pairing as the 2013 female Orangebelly and 1 is from the same male, but a different female. These 3 male Orangebellies are smaller than their sister, so any of them may still go through the color change. I would love to hang on to these 3 males to see if they change, but I may not have enough room in my racks for them, so I might have to sell these 3 male Orangebellies from last year (they are about 350 grams, and I think the color change has started once the snake reaches about 500 grams).

[BPSnakeLady]

well. dude... if you need room, I can take one off your hands **whistles** Levity aside that is just cool. I wonder if it IS a gene thing that you can duplicate with offspring.

[MarkS]

I've never had it happen to me personally, but there have been several snakes that this has happened to over the years. It's not genetic and some have theorized that it's the result of a bacterial infection but I don't think that's ever been proven. Generally people have reported that it started with an odd rather waxy looking defecation followed by a shed that appeared to be thicker then normal. I'm not sure if anyone has ever figured out what is actually going on, but it appears to strip away the top layer of pigment and gradually replaces it with melanine. It certainly is odd and I've never heard of it happening twice to the same person.