Double Het For What?

[Slowcountry Balls]

Here is a recent picture of the parents of this clutch. The sire is on the left and the dam is on the right.



Since there have been questions about Fire, I took a picture with an adult male Fire. The sire is front left, the dam is front right, and the adult male Fire is in the back:

I don't think that either parent looks like a Fire.

I also took a picture of one of the unknown recessive hatchlings next to a 2013 Fire that I produced. Keep in mind that Fires get lighter as they age, and this 2013 Fire has had a full year of growing and shedding to get to the point where he is in this picture, while the 2014 unknown recessive has only just had her first shed. 2013 male Fire on left, 2014 female unknown recessive on right.

I think that while subtle, there are enough differences to say that this is not a Fire, especially since the parents do not look like Fires.

Here is a collage of the 9 surviving hatchlings:

Top row are 3 females all 66% het for both Albino and whatever gene this is,
Middle row is 2 females unknown 66% het Albino and a female Albion 66% het unknown
Bottom row is 1 male Albion 66% het unknown and 2 males 66% het for both Albino and whatever gene this is
This clutch started off with 11 eggs, and 1 egg had twins, but I lost 3 of the hatchlings due to a twisted umbilical chord, a large mass in 1 egg, and 1 twin was dead when I cut the clutch open. I started another thread on large masses in eggs killing hatchlings to see if anyone else has experienced this too (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Causing-Death).

Still open to any suggestions, and will be watching the 2 female hatchlings in question closely, especially looking at their sheds to see if they are clear (indicating Hypo).

[JMinILM]

Interesting. How do they look now after several sheds?

[Slowcountry Balls]

So, after a few sheds, they are not Hypos (sheds have black markings). My best guess is that they are a dark line of Caramel Albino. I will try to take some new pictures this weekend.

[RandyRemington]

Any kinking? Not a sure thing with caramels but if seen would be a factor in favor of them being caramels.

[Slowcountry Balls]

Any kinking? Not a sure thing with caramels but if seen would be a factor in favor of them being caramels.

No kinking observed. Both look real good.

Here are the updated photos:

The unknown recessive is on the far left. I think it is a dark line of Caramel Albino. The Albino is on top, the 66% possible double het is on the right, and a Hypo from another clutch is on the bottom:


Here is a picture of just the 3 sibliings:

Unknown recessiv (probably dark Caramel Albino) on the left, Albino in the middle, and 66% possible double het on the right.

[Bagel&CreamCheese]

could it be possible that the albino is actually a sunglow?

[stoaob3]

The Hypo gene is a gray area between normal and amelanistic. They can be variable between different clutches due to color differences of the adults. There is also another line of Hypo that is incompatible with the typical Hypo line most people have. A good friend of mine found this out the hard way. To me they look like hypos. Even the Albinos look washed out and pale.....could be Hybinos. Interesting to say the least.

I agree with the albinos looking hypo also

[Karokash]

Learning a ton from this thread so I look forward to the updates on any finds.

Still laughing at reading the thread title to the beat of "Turn it Down for What"

[Slowcountry Balls]

could it be possible that the albino is actually a sunglow?

I agree with the albinos looking hypo also

Since the unknown recessive has black markings in their sheds, I really don't think they are Hypo, so I doubt that the Albinos are actually Sunglows. At the November Repticon on Columbia, SC, I was able to compare the unknown recessives to a known Caramel Albino. The unkown recessive was darker that the Caramel Albino that I compared her to, but could possibly be a dark line of Caramel Albino.

Learning a ton from this thread so I look forward to the updates on any finds.

Still laughing at reading the thread title to the beat of "Turn it Down for What"

Glad you are finding this thread helpful.

[Karokash]

Glad you are finding this thread helpful.

Oh very. I mean i'm still completely green to the world of breeding so a good deal of it is going over my head. But as I learn more I'm going to revisit the thread often as I want to learn as much as I can about genetics and the process so I can eventually breed one day myself.