Zoo Med UTH

[Eric Alan]

If I put the probe on the UTH pad wouldn't that be measuring the temp of the pad, not the substrate?

No. It isn't measuring the temperature of the pad - it is controlling the temperature of the pad. If there are other things that could interfere with this (urine, your snake, substrate, etc), then it can not do its job effectively. This is why the probe placement is recommended where it has been recommended.

Shouldn't I be measuring the temp of the substrate?

Yes. You should be measuring the temp of the substrate (most importantly, the surface of the glass immediately above the pad) - infrared thermometers tend to be the most efficient. From this measurement, you can choose to increase or decrease the set point of your thermostat accordingly.

Does this clarification make sense?

[KMG]

Many people remove the clamp and place the lamp directly on the screen. This is not a very good method as it will make you remove the lamp to get into the tank which will allow the tank to cool down and shorten the life of the bulbs by banging them around. Also this does not allow you to adjust the distance of the lamp to give you the proper flood of heat and the desired hot spot. Now you could get a dimmer but I'm not really a fan of them.

I prefer to use a lamp stand. This allows for a che or lamp to be pointed as desired and leaves the heat source in place when entering the tank so the tank does not drop in temperature.
The big box pet stores should have these for around 20 bucks. I don't know why amazon has them so high unless they have gone up in price. Its been sometime since ï have bought one.

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptil...ile+lamp+stand

[blubudgie]

okay thanks. I think i'll get a lamp stand.

- - - Updated - - -

okay thanks. I think i'll get a lamp stand.

[artgecko]

Sorry about the link... the one bcr229 posted is similar and measures humidity too.

The thermostat probe has to be right on the heat mat because it controls power to the mat. You use the probe to the thermometer (inside the tank right on the glass above the UTH to measure what temp is getting through the glass into the tank and then adjust your thermostat appropriately.

i.e. if I set the thermostat to 90f, but take a temp reading from the thermometer and it says 87f, I might want to increase the UTH thermostat reading 3 degrees to 93f, so that the temp inside the tank will rise 3 degrees to the desired temp. It can be confusing because the two words are so similar and they do different functions.

If you look at the tub tutorial link I posted, you can see how his UTH, thermostat, and thermometer are placed. The thermometer (acu-rite) he uses is a similar model to the one I recommended and measures temps and humidity. You would do the setup very similar in a glass tank (except that the UTH would be attached to the tank).

[blubudgie]

Sorry, I'm still confused...lol
So if you put the tstat probe into the substrate, why wouldn't it work the same? Doesn't the probe take the temp of whatever it is touching and adjust the tstat accordingly? Isn't that how it works; basically the tstat probe IS a thermometer.
Say I put my probe into the substrate and set my tstat to 90 degrees. So then wouldn't the probe measure the temp of the substrate until it is 90 and then "tell" the tstat to turn the heat mat off? So why does it matter whether you put the probe on the mat or in the substrate?
I would then use my thermometer as a second check.

also Bumble shed and he's beautiful now

[thejennabird]

So if you put the tstat probe into the substrate, why wouldn't it work the same?

While you are correct that the probe of a thermostat is effectively a thermometer, it won't work the same for the reasons that Eric Alan listed above. You want your thermostat probe to measure the temperature of the UTH and the UTH alone. Here's why...

Situation 1: You put the probe of your thermostat in the substrate inside your cage to regulate the UTH (which is outside the cage). Your snake accidentally moves the thermostat probe so it's no longer resting above the UTH. Your UTH is now unregulated; the thermostat probe is reading some other area of the cage not touching the UTH. The UTH is kept running, and your snake gets burnt.

Taping your thermostat probe between the UTH and the outside bottom of your tank ensures it will always be monitoring the actual UTH temperature and nothing else.

Situation 2: You glue or otherwise adhere the thermostat probe inside the cage, in the substrate, so it cannot be moved. Your snake accidentally pees on the thermostat probe, or your snake accidentally spills water on the thermostat probe, etc. Now the probe has been compromised. It doesn't read an accurate temperature, and it thinks the entire UTH is much colder than it really is (in reality, just the probe is cold, the rest of the UTH is fine). The thermostat keeps the entire area of the UTH running too hot, and your snake gets burnt.

Taping your thermostat probe between the UTH and the outside bottom of your tank ensures it will never get wet or dirty and give you false readings.

I hope this makes sense. If you're still having trouble understanding why this is done, maybe a picture or drawing of the "recommended" arrangement of things might help you understand better?

Edit: On top of all this, you'll still have your thermometer probe inside the cage, on top of or within the substrate, telling you what temperatures your snake is experiencing on its hot spot. In other words, your thermostat will measure the "UTH temp", and your thermometer will tell you the "snake temp".

[Eric Alan]

Sorry, I'm still confused...lol
So if you put the tstat probe into the substrate, why wouldn't it work the same? Doesn't the probe take the temp of whatever it is touching and adjust the tstat accordingly? Isn't that how it works; basically the tstat probe IS a thermometer.
Say I put my probe into the substrate and set my tstat to 90 degrees. So then wouldn't the probe measure the temp of the substrate until it is 90 and then "tell" the tstat to turn the heat mat off? So why does it matter whether you put the probe on the mat or in the substrate?
I would then use my thermometer as a second check.

I can't put it any more clearly than I already have:

If there are other things that could interfere with this (urine, your snake, substrate, etc), then it can not do its job effectively. This is why the probe placement is recommended where it has been recommended.

I can put it longer than I already have by using an example:

Lets say you bury the probe in the substrate and adjust the thermostat accordingly based on the temperature readings you take with your thermometer. Like you said, you take your readings and end up setting the temperature at the probe to stay at 90 degrees. In order to do this, the heat mat needs to heat up to above 90 degrees to heat 1) the glass and 2) the substrate between the pad and the probe. Glass does not conduct heat well, and neither does substrate, so it's safe to say that the temperature of the pad needed to get the probe to 90 degrees is considerably higher than 90 degrees. It is also safe to say that the temperature of the glass in contact with the pad will be higher than 90 degrees. Now, lets say your snake decides to act like a snake and explore its enclosure. While doing so, it digs down in the substrate to the nice, warm glass bottom and moves your thermostat probe out of the way while doing so. Because Murphy's Law, the probe ends up sticking into the air. Now, the recently moved probe is reading the ambient air temperature instead of the substrate temperature. This temperature will be unquestionably lower, so it will send a signal to your thermostat to increase power to the hat pad to make up for this difference. It will keep sending this signal until the probe once again reads 90 degrees. I can guarantee you that the heat pad is (thankfully) not powerful enough to raise the ambient air temperature of your enclosure to 90 degrees. Unfortunately, this also means that it will continually run on full power trying to do so. Basically, you might as well not even have a thermostat at this point, since it won't be doing anything beyond opening up the power flood gates.

Does this help paint a better picture?

[PitOnTheProwl]

Does this help paint a better picture?

Your patience is so much better than mine...................

[blubudgie]

Ohhhh thanks guys I see now.

[blubudgie]

Forgot to update this.
Anyway I have a lamp that keeps the ambient temp on the warm side around 80-82 and 75ish on the cool side.
My UTH is hooked to a tstat that I set to 90-95 depending on how cool my house is. And a digital thermometer probe in the bedding usually reads 85-88
am I good?


and do i need to lock this thread or can i just let it die?