Holdbacks & Growing Your Collection

[Eric Alan]

Hello, friends!

With my first (and much anticipated) male arriving next week, I've pretty much worn out the WOBP Genetic Wizard dreaming of the pairings and worms of tomorrow. I'm sure I'm not the only one who plays, as my little brother calls it, Virtual Python Pimp, right?

My question for you is when you made the move from virtual breeder to actual breeder, how did you choose what to sell and what to keep as holdbacks? Did you tend to keep stunning examples of hatchlings, regardless of specific genes or sex? Or, did you set "holdback criteria" before a clutch hatches (morph, combo, sex, etc) and stick to that goal? Or, did you wait until everything was out and decide once you saw what you had? Or, did you sell everything no matter what? What would you recommend as initial plans for someone starting from the ground up? Personally, I've played through the entire spectrum of scenarios from "keep everything" to "sell everything" and can think of supporting arguments for both extremes and probably everything in between.

Similarly, for those of you that have been, or are currently, in my shoes: How do you balance growing your collection from the inside with realizing your dream of a small return on your large investment?

Thank you so much for your comments, insights, stories, and smart remarks in advance!

Best regards,
Eric

[sho220]

In my case it was easy. I love anything Spider, so the plan was to start making Spider combos and keep any that made the cut. Unfortunately, early on I made the rookie mistake of getting "male heavy" so I was only going to be keeping females. I started out with a male Spider and my first keeper was a few female Spiders. Once they got up to size I put them with my Pastel and kept a Bumblebee. Next keeper was a Butterbee. The following year I held back a Stingerbee. I broke my rule here and also kept an Enchi Butter because one day I want a Super Enchi, and also held back a male Lesserbee because he rocked. My final keepers were from 2013. I kept a female Spider Nazca, two male Lesser Yellowbelly Nazca's, and a male Yellowbelly Nazca. < I kept all those males because the Nazca was a complete surprise.

This coming season I'll be pairing up one of the Nazca boys to mom (Yellowbelly Nazca) in the hopes of getting a Super. I'll probably be pairing up the Stingerbee again (no eggs from her this year) and either the Bumblebee or Butterbee. Not sure what males to put to them though...

My advice...don't end up male heavy! Seems like everyone does.

[bobmurffy]

You can go any route you want... alot of people keep their best snake from the clutch no matter the sex but say you hit a triple or quad morph and and its the best thing you can get from the clutch... well one day it will replace its parents which was a single or double gene... starting off you really want to keep some females and not go male heavy, but if you hit your odds and pull out a triple gene male your better off keeping him to replace the father... but you can choose what you want to do is the best part.. maybe you like how one looks and want it instead of a clutch mate... or you dont like how any of them look so you sell them all... or maybe you dont have room for any more or you want to only keep 2 hold backs from 2 clutchs... your best way is to prolly wait for all of them to be hatched before deciding, but also have an idea of what you are shooting for... and keep it realistic, dont plan on 6 females to hold back on 2 clutches of 4 eggs each lol.. but make if your own, everyone goes about it a different way and after you hatch your first clutch youll know what to do

[bcr229]

My pairings are done with an eye toward keeping a specific morph as a holdback if one is produced - breed what you like.

Sometimes I have a really hard time limiting myself to just one.

[alan12013]

Thanks for sharing your personal roadmap there sho220. I'm just getting started as you know and I love the spider morphs myself and look forward to what the next few years will bring. When starting out I can easily see how it's easy to get male heavy. Right now there are so many nice males for sale in my area and the females are rare and expensive. I do have another source of income to live on so my method will be to hold back any and all good female snakes for the first year or so.

[sho220]

Thanks for sharing your personal roadmap there sho220. I'm just getting started as you know and I love the spider morphs myself and look forward to what the next few years will bring. When starting out I can easily see how it's easy to get male heavy. Right now there are so many nice males for sale in my area and the females are rare and expensive. I do have another source of income to live on so my method will be to hold back any and all good female snakes for the first year or so.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[Eric Alan]

My advice...don't end up male heavy! Seems like everyone does.

Yeah - I'm going to be aiming for at least (most?) a 1:4 M:F ratio. I just had the opportunity arise at the right time on a second male I couldn't pass up (I'm not banking on him going this season for me). I don't regret that decision one bit.

Side note: How did you end up with surprise Nazca in your collection? Did I miss a thread somewhere?

[Eric Alan]

My pairings are done with an eye toward keeping a specific morph as a holdback if one is produced...

Regardless of gender?

Sometimes I have a really hard time limiting myself to just one.

I can only imagine.

[Eric Alan]

You can go any route you want...everyone goes about it a different way and after you hatch your first clutch youll know what to do

That's the kind of advice my personality has a strong love/hate relationship with. Thanks!

[sho220]

Side note: How did you end up with surprise Nazca in your collection? Did I miss a thread somewhere?

I'll try to keep this short...

Several years ago I traded a female Spider for a female Yellowbelly. I did the trade with a guy that was just down the road from me. Fast forward several years, and I finally get eggs from the Yellowbelly. The babies hatch and look a bit off. Nothing drastic, just a little different. I posted pics of the clutch here and got an email from Jon Courtney of coldbloodedaddiction, who is also just down the road from me. He say's they have Nazca in them and asks about the parents of the clutch. I tell him the Lesserbee (Sire) was hatched by me and there's nothing special about him, other than he's just a nice Lesserbee. I told him the Yellowbelly (Dam) was from a guy down in Fredericksburg. Turns out, Jon knows the guy, and he got the Yellowbelly from Jon. The Yellowbelly was a baby that was related to a group of wild caught imports Jon got from Ian of Outback Reptiles, that Jon originally thought were Granites. Jon had been working with this group since 2003 and after several years proved them out to be similiar to the Paint/Sentinel/Neo/Speckled stuff that has been established. I don't think they've been proven compatible with all those yet, hence the name "Nazca" being used.

I've been hesistant to call them Nazca's because, well, I usually don't luck into stuff like this...however, I did notice they looked a bit off, and Jon's a pro breeder who I have a great deal of respect for, so his opinion holds a great deal of weight for me. I'm about 99.8% sure they're Nazcas...Producing a Super will take care of that last .2%