Pastels?

[Kodieh]

i didnt say pastel is worthless. just a bit overrated and cannot compare to certain other morphs. a pastel is most certainly better than a normal. and with such a smoking hot male, even a clutch from a normal female is valuable. and even a normal x normal clutch has inherent value.




if they are better than enchi ONLY because they are cheaper than enchi, then this kinda proves my point. yes pastel is the monetarily cheapest morph. my main point is that other codominant genes like enchi, fire, lesser, YB are better than pastel and have more potential than pastel. IF the price would be the same, THEN you would prefer these, and thats why i said that im not talking about the price.



and that is called an "ad hominem". if you would have succeeded in adressing the main argument of my post i would not have bothered to point out a little "ad hominem" like this.

Can't shoot a gun without owning one, friend.

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[satomi325]

That pastel gene sure makes her so worthless and crappy. No one wants that commoner gene! Gross!




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[Pythonfriend]

That pastel gene sure makes her so worthless and crappy. No one wants that commoner gene! Gross!




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"worthless" and "crappy".... when did i ever say something like that?

it surely looks nice, and surely would look much nicer with a different gene instead of pastel in it.

its about quality. a BMW is a nice car. but a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce is arguably even nicer. a BMW is cheaper. Now the difference is that cars do not sexually reproduce, but BPs do, and soon other better codominant morphs will be just as easy to get as pastels. the price difference is not here to stay, it will go away.

some of you just like to throw stuff around like "That pastel gene sure makes her so worthless and crappy", because you know i never said anything like that, but by implying that i did, you cause me to defend myself. Thats typical bullying behavior. its not friendly and not productive, and it does nothing to contribute to the discussion. its just some of you making clear that you dont like me, and congratulating each other for twisting around what im actually saying. i keep playing because you only reveal your own character flaws this way. it doesnt bother me, but the information it reveals about how different forum members prioritize different things is quite interesting.

Pastels would not have such a bad rap with a lot of people if it was not for a bunch of people producing them for quantity and throwing the concept of quality out the window. I have see 400 gram pastels that were so faded and brown that they looked normal, I have also seen 1600+ gram pastels that still looked bright yellow and had high blushing.

The problem is, as been mentioned in this thread already, they are a cheap morph...aka a morph most new breeders can easily get. Who is statistically more likely to throw lower quality animals together just to get some eggs?...newer breeders. They keep the one nice baby (out of the 6 or so that hatch) and sell the rest to other new breeders. Now you have 5 more people breeding a low end pet only quality snake.

In all honesty from the right line and from the right breeder I would still pay $200 or more for the right pastel female. That being said most pastels out their on the general market are worth no more than a normal.

now THAT is a really good post. on topic, and good points are being made. some selectively line-bred pastels are really nice.

the issue i see: what if you take a really nice pastel, and breed it to a nice black pastel (which has not been selectively bred for brightness, but for other traits), and then you breed the resulting pewter to a yellowbelly (which also has not been selectively bred for brightness), and then you get a pastel in that pewter to YB clutch. will it still be as nice? or will it look more like the typical average pastel after the line has been mixed with other stuff?

when i look at things like lemon pastel or citrus pastel or blonde pastel, i wonder if its really a different gene that will hold up when there are a few generations of recombination, or if you can unintentionally revert them back to average pastels when, for example, working with darker morphs.

[OhhWatALoser]

So I reread this thread about 3 times just to make sure I didn't miss anything and I am now pretty confident I did not. So just to verify, someone posted their personal opinion that they do not wish to have pastel in their collection, as they do not feel it lives up to their personal standards compared to other morphs. Then multiple people are on a mission to mock them for their opinion and also claim their opinion holds no merit because they do not own a ball python currently? Am I getting this right? Are you kidding me?

Now correct me if I am wrong, but I think I remember pythonfriend stating at one point English is not his first language. Regardless of that, I know he has a different way of expressing himself, which is normally with less than ideal finesse (No offense), but his intention and thought pattern is pretty easy to follow in this thread. I never went to college, but I'm pretty sure I can still follow this. He answers the OP question, with detail in his first two posts. Didn't attack anyone, just gave his opinion, which is exactly what the OP asked for. Then...

So.... a Citrus Pastel YB is of no use? Just an example of your short sightedness.

Do you understand how random this comment and attack really are?

You can't disregard the higher price of Enchi......

I can buy 0.5 Pastels to your 0.1 Enchi. I'm not ruling out Enchi by any means, but my 0.5 Pastels give me 5x more eggs in two years than your 0.1 Enchi.

That's what I call a wise decision considering some of the males I already have are Enchi morphs.

You misunderstood his first two posts, then misunderstood his explanation... by a long shot. Honestly I don't know what the heck you thought he said.

That pastel gene sure makes her so worthless and crappy. No one wants that commoner gene! Gross!

This is obviously a worthless clutch.....

Where the heck are you guys coming up with this? he called pastels overrated. Do you honestly get all bent out of shape over his opinion? I think bananas are overrated, are you upset by that? or does my opinion hold more merit because I actually own ball pythons? Which about that....

Sorry but pythonfriend why does your opinion on any of this even matter you don't even have a bp all you talk about is when you start your collection seems to me that your just another person that talks without actually doing anything

Can't shoot a gun without owning one, friend.

For someone who doesn't own a bp, you do a lot of typing just to hear yourself think. Quantum Physics means nothing in breeding ball pythons.....

So now we are condemning those who actually learn about these animals and talk to use before owning one? *flips the fricking table*

I think it's reasonable to say while learning about these animals, one might form and opinion and figure out what they like and do not like. I didn't know you weren't allowed to share that opinion, even when an OP specifically asks for it.

I can't say I've ever seen the infamous gang mentality I have read about, as I do not normally participate in the sections that give the opportunity. BP.net actually has a rep for it. Guess I have seen it now. I do however wonder, does "the gang" normally sound so ridiculous?

If there is something I misunderstood, someone please enlighten me.

[Kodieh]

I thought my analogy was pretty straight forward, obviously a question was required. Yes, someone who has never bred hasnt a good opinion about the genetic potential of any pastel. Or a generalization therein.

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[OhhWatALoser]

I thought my analogy was pretty straight forward, obviously a question was required. Yes, someone who has never bred hasnt a good opinion about the genetic potential of any pastel. Or a generalization therein.

Yeah, I don't understand this. I look at pictures, I go to shows, it is pretty easy to see what does what, how do me making babies all of sudden enlighten me to genetic potential, of course assuming you are not the first to create a certain combo.

Also why is genetic potential even a topic in this thread?

[Kodieh]

Yeah, I don't understand this. I look at pictures, I go to shows, it is pretty easy to see what does what, how do me making babies all of sudden enlighten me to genetic potential, of course assuming you are not the first to create a certain combo.

I lean more into the generalization made. It's really an animal by animal issue. To say pastels are bad or unnecessary was a glaring inexperienced/novice insight. Much to be disregarded.

I dunno what else you are passionate about to make more analogies, but I will if you enlighten me.

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[OhhWatALoser]

I lean more into the generalization made. It's really an animal by animal issue. To say pastels are bad or unnecessary was a glaring inexperienced/novice insight. Much to be disregarded.

I dunno what else you are passionate about to make more analogies, but I will if you enlighten me.

When was anything about pastel being bad or unnecessary even said? The only thing I see is overrated and a whole of explanation of his opinion. Also a simple explanation will be good, skip the analogy.

[Pythonfriend]

if you disregard an argument in a thread, this should mean that you, well, disregard it. i disregard an argument by not responding to it, or maybe by pointing out how it is wrong, and respond to other more valid arguments instead.


(ill make all the stuff that isnt too relevant a bit blue)
i learned english at school, and i was really bad at it, well into 10th grade. which translates into age 16. then i started reading english literature, and figured that i like it, and i read 10000 pages of english literature within less than 2 years. and my grades improved dramatically. today, not counting all digital conversation on forums or elsewhere, i think i am at around 40000 pages read in english. i watched all of star trek in english, except for the last third of deep space nine and parts of the original series. i watch game of thrones, agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, the walking dead in english. and all of "oz", "the wire", "sopranos", "misfits", "battlestar galactica", "south park", "4400", "firefly". i simply prefer the original language, if possible. and i did spend time in the USA, i have seen all of the west coast between SF and LA. i had one helicopter ride in my life, through the grand canyon. ive seen yellowstone national park, all of it.

and i know how to properly capitalize letters in the english language, but i JUST DONT CARE. at least not in this thread.

right now, i do not keep any BPs. but i held them and i've seen a lot of them and i have a working brain and a sense of taste when it comes to aesthetics. also i have a kind of high-functioning autism, which (in my case) brings with it some abilities, at the cost of social awkwardness. i never forget facts that fit in with other facts, but sometimes i forget people. i cannot relate to children, and this was true even when i was a child. (end of blue stuff, back to topic).


i still think other comparable codominants are better, if you leave availability and price aside. when you show off all your super pastel + extra gene stuff, i remember that youtube video where Ralph Davis shows all his super phantom + extra gene stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbXf6Jsbj_4

and i think super pastel doesnt really compare, these are just super phantom (/mystic) combos (i think mystic and phantom are basically the same). the contrast in the snakes in the video is just awesome. oh, and, no pastel in the video. none of them has pastel. and (personal opinion) i think they look awesome, and because its all in the BEL complex, i assume they will age well. but i am well aware that only donkeys assume. smart people look at how they really age.

[John1982]

How does everyone feel about regular pastels? Only because the dinker I have may be gravid with pastels, which is no issue for me. Just wondering how much these sell for since they are the second most popular morph these days.


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The first post in this thread. Looks to me like OP was looking for any and all opinions so they could get a feel for the morph in general.