Normal x Normal breeding

[Mr. Misha]

my point was stating that I an going to intentionally put an embryo at risk for the sake of my experiments therefor rather not do it with an egg that contains a potentially substantial return on investment.

You completely missed the point and you're arguing exactly the same thing as that breeder at the show.

Why would you put an embryo at risk for an experiment in the first place? Is this a groundbreaking experiment that will change ball python breeding? Why re-invent the wheel?

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[Bluebonnet Herp]

I don't see the point either unless you're trying to prove out a dinker.

Just going to point out real quick- there's no point in owning a snake in the first place, much less breeding them. We only do it simply because we want to.
That all said, here's my quick take on producing normals. I don't see too much wrong with it or why anyone does it, although breeding for "practice" doesn't come off as ethical to me, nor is it necessarily rocket science. It just matters how you go about doing it and how well you plan it out. Most important is that all the surviving babies have somewhere to live at the end of it all. Worst case scenario just means you have to keep all the babies, at least for an extended period of time. Keeping that in mind, not everyone is into genetics and not everyone actively participates or wants to participate in the morph market, and it's not up to everyone to be utter snake nazis and determine what exactly everyone should be allowed to breed. If someone wants to produce just normals or even line breed normals (something I'm heavily considering) then so be it. As long as they can take care of everything in the end.
Also just to note, normals can't be the hardest thing in the world to sell. It just depends on which niche you take up. Normals without morph genes won't have a strong presence and won't sell real well at something like a reptile expo or well known reptile classifieds (ex. kingsnake) which is highly populated by hobby breeders and big league breeders, but they appear to be easier to sell locally and on classifieds such as craigslist (people try- and have- to sold them for as high as $300 here in San Antonio; a $20 normal would be a bargain for the unaware local) as well as wholesale as there is always a demand for someone's first or second cheap pet snake. Essentially the difference between selling ice cream in the summer vs the winter. Again, it's just down to planning and having a good understanding on how well certain things sell and where to sell them. You get all that down and you shouldn't experience problems. There isn't really a need to force someone to keep or breed something like morphs if that isn't what they want to do.

[sho220]

Just going to point out real quick- there's no point in owning a snake in the first place

I disagree. How about as a learning experience? A way to relax? Because they're fascinating to watch. Because you want a pet but are allergic to the furry kind. You want a pet but live in an apartment that doesn't allow cats or dogs. You want a pet that doesn't require constant attention. I'll stop there...

[Bluebonnet Herp]

I disagree. How about as a learning experience? A way to relax? Because they're fascinating to watch. Because you want a pet but are allergic to the furry kind. You want a pet but live in an apartment that doesn't allow cats or dogs. You want a pet that doesn't require constant attention. I'll stop there...

Pets don't fall under food, shelter, or water.



...Unless you're eating them.

[bcr229]

Pets don't fall under food, shelter, or water.

True, but keeping snakes is cheaper than paying a therapist.

[Slashmaster]

I don't think that breeding normals is inferior to breeding morphs, because despite the price discrepancy, they're all beautiful animals. Just different colors. A normal's life is worth just as much to me as my pastel clown's life. They might be way different in monetary value but they're still living animals.

However, I think it would be unwise to breed normals without first looking into the market for potential babies or being willing to keep every single one produced. It has to be understood (with breeding reptiles in general, but less valuable ones for certain) that each animal deserves to be treated respectfully and deserves food and shelter. All of these require time and money, money that will need to be invested by the breeder if there is no market for their offspring. If you are fine with the prospect of keeping and providing for all bred animals, or if you have buyers lined up for them, breed away.

I can see the financial argument in "experiment breeding techniques with normals," but it also strikes me as uncomfortably close to exploiting animals because they have a low value.

[sho220]

Pets don't fall under food, shelter, or water.



...Unless you're eating them.

Obviously they're not necessary for basic survival, but that seems like quit a difference than saying there's "no point" in owning them...

[Peoples]

You completely missed the point and you're arguing exactly the same thing as that breeder at the show.

Why would you put an embryo at risk for an experiment in the first place? Is this a groundbreaking experiment that will change ball python breeding? Why re-invent the wheel?

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My experiments are for my benefit... Ground breaking or not...
have no competition so I see no use for bring morphs, understand my situation is unique therefore your point would be valid in your instance and mine the same for me...

[Bluebonnet Herp]

Obviously they're not necessary for basic survival, but that seems like quit a difference than saying there's "no point" in owning them...

Well, think about it. You don't need a snake any more than you do something else, like a fish. That's what I meant anyway.
But life wouldn't be anywhere near as enjoyable (or tolerable) without them though!

[Pythonfriend]

i see how you might start out with breeding BPs that are not too expensive, just to get the routine down and to gain experience.

but you need to treat every BP with respect and treat it properly. you need to aim for perfect results right from the start.

still, there is a case for trying out before you get into truly expensive stuff. big breeders differentiate between good female breeders that produce 7 big eggs, and good female breeders that produce 11 small eggs.

"trying out" can mean both: wild experiments, or just figuring out how a certain female performs. thats another advantage that the really big breeders have: when they drop tens of thousands on a male that has a certain completely new gene/morph, they can pair it up with females that reliably produce a large number of small eggs. trying out different husbandry methods and playing around with husbandry conditions seems questionable to me, because all that is already established.