Suddenly A Homosexual Male Snake??

[NH93]

I'm surprised it has taken so long for them to become like this... makes me wonder if you've been missing some signs. Or perhaps not, and it has just started but good for you for removing them. Time to keep them apart, as they probably should be - like most other snakes.

Regardless of their sexual orientation it is clear someone(s) isn't happy and is showing it very clearly.

All the best!

(And hey, with that tub idea suggested before, you have more room for more snakes... so...)

[Pythonfriend]

when one snake decides to drive another snake out of its territory, the harassment will not stop. in nature they would go seperate ways, but they are in the same enclosure. so instead, they will stress each other out, and that constant high stress level is bad for the health.

i wonder how it worked so well for so many years, thats quite amazing and unusual i think. especially with two males. but when they start fighting you have to seperate them, there is no other way. the dominant snake will not understand that the other snake it is trying to drive away cannot leave, it will think that its not effective enough and will try to ramp up the agression. once such patterns of behavior kick in, if you dont seperate them they might fight and drive each other insane each day every day for a really long time, far beyond the point where in nature, the weaker snake would leave and settle somewhere else.

[BPBeth]

That's it, you see. I don't see the older snake fighting at all. He doesn't raise his head. He rubs on the smaller snake and gently will nudge him here and there. He doesn't try to grab a hold of him to constrict or bite. Not even when he was bitten by the small snake did he try to fight (and he is the bigger snake). The smaller snake doesn't like it. That is pretty obvious. The little snake is aggressively trying to stop the behavior but while they were together, he couldn't get away from it.

Looking at several mating vids, and even an alleged male on male mating vid still makes me think its sex for the old guy, not territorial. Again, why is this snake being territorial only to the small snake while the 3rd male snake in the cage is left alone? Why still restless in that cage after the little snake is removed? Yet no efforts to move against the 3rd male snake. I've read that larger snakes can attempt to mate with smaller male snakes and, in the wild, a smaller male snake may allow it for self preservation.

Anyway, trying to figure out snake psychology. I just find this extremely odd that its starting now after 16 yrs. And no, I didn't miss this behavior for 16 yrs. I'm pretty observant and take care of my snakes.

[Marrissa]

Males will lock with males out of dominance. It's not sexual behavior, it's dominance behavior. You've got everyone on this thread giving you the obvious answer of separate them. They are competing for the same territory. That nudging is his mild way of trying to get the smaller snake to go away. They can't talk and they don't have much other way then using their body to push the other or bite to show thy aren't happy about the other one being there.

[GoingPostal]

People can make guesses all they want as to behavioral cause but what it comes down to is you need to separate the snakes.

[Tarzan152]

I'm going to have to join the chorus here and agree that you must separate them, all of them. Whether it's one snake hitting on the other, aggression or he's senile, separation is the absolute best solution. Things don't remain constant forever so count your blessings that they got along for so long but that kinship seems to be over. Why allow your smaller snake to get harassed?

On a side note, I think it's beautiful that you have 15+ year old snakes. I have 3 myself and can't wait till they get older. Any chance you'll show us a pic of them and their enclosure?

Good luck..

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[BPBeth]

Any advise? Any insights? I realize that ultimately I may need to permanently separate them so I don't need that advise, I'm aware. But would appreciate any thoughts at this point.

I made it pretty clear in my original post that I had separated the snakes. And here (quote above) I make it pretty clear that I understood that the separation could well be permanent and that I wasn't really here looking for that pat response from fellow posters. Rather I was looking for some insights into the behavior itself and the paradoxes I described given how long they've been together. (I wasn't looking for low communication skill lectures about separating my snakes). I've been taking care of these guys for 16 yrs and I think I can realize what their needs are and when their needs change, and when their care needs to be modified, even if I don't know everything about why they do the things they do. I came here looking for insights and maybe someone who may have exp with same sex attempts at copulation.

BTW, the snakes haven't locked whatsoever.

Thanks for the input about dominance behavior.

[T&C Exotics]

Signs of dominance can range from very subtle things like one in top of the other in a hide to extreme of what you described and worse. Most things we think are cute like one may be drinking and another comes up and lays in the water bowl or stealing food if fed together. What you described would be more towards the extreme end of dominance.

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[BPBeth]

Thanks Tarz: Here is the enclosure. You can see the little snake in question telling me he wants to get out for awhile. The enclosure is a boaphile made of pvc. It has upstairs and downstairs compartments.


Here is a face up of my bad old guy who is now in solidary confinement.


And the 3 blissfully brothers.


I'm thinking of switching from using towel "substrate" to something else. White newspaper sounds the best, but costly. Any comments on substrate? I'm not going to use spreadable aspen or cypress type bedding. That stuff is never clean unless you change it ever time the snake pees.

[sho220]

Rather I was looking for some insights into the behavior itself and the paradoxes I described given how long they've been together.

You need a visit from the Snake Whisperer!