Prices down?

[Don]

Cup is always full. Even a half cup of water has a half cup of air, so it is full! We've seen these price drop threads every couple of months. Yet, the market is still robust and new people are coming in every day. Yes, price drops are inevitable but establish your reputation as a quality breeder and you can still do well. I'm not ready to give up.

[Raven01]

I picked up a Lesser Platinum female for $250 recently and honestly if I shopped around I think I over paid but, this female had the characteristics I like in Lessers. Besides being the 1st captive bred to tag me this girl has the colour and "pop" that appeals to me. When I get to producing snakes my offerings may not be to everyone's taste and that is okay. What matters is that I produce the best looking snakes that appeal to my tastes and I'll bet there is a market of similarly mind people out there.
Just watch out when I get ahold of some MJ Axanthiics, Clowns and few others I'll shush about for the moment. I may get a 1st or not but I guarantee that I'll get some drool worthy snakes. So, anyone I sell to will also get snakes that are coveted. Maybe it is just my countries market but, high quality and persistence seem to be the 2 key factors in at least paying for our hobby if not also making a bit of a profit.

[Pythonfriend]

lots of truth here.

im still in the process of saving up and changing my living situation in order to get my first BPs, and i want very nice looking pets and do intend on future breeding.

im also in the process of figuring out what to start with, and im absolutely not interested in normals (male or female), or single gene males. im also not interested in single-gene females that are too basic. a female pastel or het red axanthic wouldnt do it for me. Normal hets are also losing their appeal, it got to be visual recessives and hets with extra genes.

i agree, that very basic stuff will probarbly sink to the price of normals and bottom out.

i think there is a paradigm shift going on: it used to be that when you breed lets say for firefly, only the normals you get were misses, and the pastels and fires were hits and the firefly was the jackpot.

now its more like: the normals are misses, the male fires and pastels are misses because of their low price and because they are not really interesting for breeding anymore, nice single-gene females can still be considered a hit (people still pay for NICE single gene females as the post above mine illustrates), but really, its just about getting the fireflies.

and medium-sized and big breeders are far ahead and their holdbacks are stuff like lesser pastel leopard clown. stuff like 5-gene codominant/dominant combos, wild super combos, recessives loaded with extra genes, double recessives.

[mvptext1]

From what I am reading and seeing, there are too many people breeding BPs. I don't have any scientific evidence to back this up, it is just a gut feeling. I see a fair amount of BP, mostly normals, that need homes. My family and I went to a couple shelters this past weekend and we were overwhelmed by the number of cats and dogs waiting to be adopted. I realize BP's are very different than dogs and cats in that they aren't reproducing outside. They are living in tubs and people are putting them together consciously to breed them. So their numbers won't ever be as astronomical as dogs and cats. However, it is evident that people are producing more BP's than the market currently can handle. And this over-production has caused the entry price of a BP to fall dramatically. As others have pointed out, you can get a BP for $20. But proper husbandry and the unforeseen cost so much more. Too many people have snakes (and other pets) as a fad, and then either let the animal suffer, or they move on. In the end, there are a lot of suffering BP's out there. I've seen the ads on craigslist. I've seen them suffering at pet stores. It sucks. I am hoping everyone slows down a little, and thinks about the consequences of bringing a life into this world, even if it is "just a snake," - all animals deserve our best if we are going to bring them into our houses. As for the economics, I do hope the demand slows down, and prices go up. I think that protects the animals somewhat. It becomes something you can't do on a whim if the prices are higher.

BP's are good ambassadors for people with a fear of snakes. We should treat them better.

I think a lot of people are self-indulgent when it comes to BP's. It just so happens that they can be housed in very small spaces very economically. But does that mean we should do it? Probably not. I gotta believe at some number of snakes, the quality of care a snake gets from one person drops off. I understand that the big breeders higher people to clean cages and maintain the general husbandry of the snakes, but for one person I can't imagine having 20 or more BP's. Maybe those people don't have to work, or something. And if their life revolves around the snakes and they are giving them all they need, good. But I gotta think out there, there are BP's being exploited for our own self indulgence. Some people genuinely love all the different colors and patterns but just don't know when to stop. And of course, others are in it for the money. Either way, if the animals well being isn't coming first, then its wrong.

I saw my first BP back in 1995 and I've wanted one since then. I saw my first pied in a Reptiles magazine a few years later - that really made me want a BP. I got my first BP this year. Quite a wait, but so worth it. My intention was to get a HET PIED male and female and breed them to make a pied. But after going to a few reptile shows and doing a lot of reading, it has occurred to me that breeding my BP's is probably not smart. Of course many of you will say since the price of a pied is so low now I should just get one instead of breeding for one.... and you are right. I can't breed. I just can't think of adding to the already flooded world. There are older BP's out there that need good homes. And they are baby normal males getting passed up for "designers." I really like BP's and it is hard to pass them up. But I know my limits. I think we should have a thread that puts the spot light on rescues. I think a good deal of our attention should be on that. As a community of snake lovers, I think a lot of us know the animals deserve better.

[gsarchie]

On the other hand, right now is a great time to add new genes to your breeder stock

Indeed! Also, I would be curious to see how many people here would still want to breed if every ball python, period, sold for $50 regardless of the genetics of the animal. I, for one, would. I still have the potential to make some world firsts as far as I know with my lemonbacks. Time will tell but I'm looking forward to breeding in the future, and I do it because I want to make my own cool combos! I need to find a high white female pied that is super cheap if a lot of snakes really are selling for super low prices.

[Kodieh]

Either you sell at current market value, or you hold on long enough to where your profit is dwarfed by your investment.

Unfortunately that is business. And, if you hold back these animals until you feel the "price is right" you will have adults that now are too expensive (by your pricing thoughts) to legitamently sell.

I helped work a booth at a local show this past weekend, and we sold a Pin for $35, pastel females for $40, spiders for $40, and had sugar males marked at $175. No one even gave the sugars a second glance, let alone a first. Pastel sugar male for $500 and a Mojave x Lesser BEL MARKED for $500, those got looks but no one even made an offer on it.

It sucks, it's disheartening, but you sell at these prices now and you hope that other people start getting out.

[Productmur]

Indeed! Also, I would be curious to see how many people here would still want to breed if every ball python, period, sold for $50 regardless of the genetics of the animal. I, for one, would. I still have the potential to make some world firsts as far as I know with my lemonbacks. Time will tell but I'm looking forward to breeding in the future, and I do it because I want to make my own cool combos! I need to find a high white female pied that is super cheap if a lot of snakes really are selling for super low prices.

Ah! This would be fun! Lots of morphs I can't get at the moment that I would like to be able to play with. But that's okay, I'll still work up to them.

[gsarchie]

Either you sell at current market value, or you hold on long enough to where your profit is dwarfed by your investment.

Unfortunately that is business. And, if you hold back these animals until you feel the "price is right" you will have adults that now are too expensive (by your pricing thoughts) to legitamently sell.

I helped work a booth at a local show this past weekend, and we sold a Pin for $35, pastel females for $40, spiders for $40, and had sugar males marked at $175. No one even gave the sugars a second glance, let alone a first. Pastel sugar male for $500 and a Mojave x Lesser BEL MARKED for $500, those got looks but no one even made an offer on it.

It sucks, it's disheartening, but you sell at these prices now and you hope that other people start getting out.

Dang Kodie, that's nuts! Were you @ the OKC show? If I don't make it through an upcoming selection course that I'm going to I will be back at Sill for 6 months sometime next year and will have to look you up!

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[bcr229]

Either you sell at current market value, or you hold on long enough to where your profit is dwarfed by your investment.

Unfortunately that is business. And, if you hold back these animals until you feel the "price is right" you will have adults that now are too expensive (by your pricing thoughts) to legitamently sell.

I helped work a booth at a local show this past weekend, and we sold a Pin for $35, pastel females for $40, spiders for $40, and had sugar males marked at $175. No one even gave the sugars a second glance, let alone a first. Pastel sugar male for $500 and a Mojave x Lesser BEL MARKED for $500, those got looks but no one even made an offer on it.

It sucks, it's disheartening, but you sell at these prices now and you hope that other people start getting out.

A lady and friend of mine who has sadly passed away gave me some sage advice after she successfully bred horses for many decades:
Breed the best to the best, and hope for the best.
With prices and a market like that, it tells me that anyone who intends to make a business of breeding and selling BP's should be pairing, at minimum, 2-3 gene males with 1-2 gene females, unless you're convinced you've found a new gene.

[Kodieh]

Dang Kodie, that's nuts! Were you @ the OKC show? If I don't make it through an upcoming selection course that I'm going to I will be back at Sill for 6 months sometime next year and will have to look you up!

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The OKC elite show, yeah. Next one is in April, haha. The prices were basically like that across the board and people were willing to negotiate to an extent.

A lady and friend of mine who has sadly passed away gave me some sage advice after she successfully bred horses for many decades:
Breed the best to the best, and hope for the best.
With prices and a market like that, it tells me that anyone who intends to make a business of breeding and selling BP's should be pairing, at minimum, 2-3 gene males with 1-2 gene females, unless you're convinced you've found a new gene.

Yeah, if you want this to pay you you can't be selling single genes. But if you want this to pay itself, breed for what you want and sell the casualties.

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