Scale-less BP photo!

[Archimedes]

To deviate slightly from the debate at hand, what precisely is the difference between the Scaleless that Brian produced and the Derma from several years ago? Other than the Derma having a smattering of scales along its flanks, these appear to have the same anotomical irregularities that the Derma did. Is there an absolute difference between the two lines of animal? And what exactly happened to the Derma? I know it was crazy-big in the community, but I haven't found a thread detailing the situation clearly. Not looking for debate, just honest straightforward answers.


Sent from my cool hide

[4theSNAKElady]

The scaleless Ball python is not for everyone. And that is ok. Debate and discussion is also ok.

But I want to make a point on these quotes above. I understand these types of issues are emotional, and elicit strong feelings, but these kinds of statements are ignorant.

Have you guys BEEN one of the "big guys"? It is so amazingly difficult to run a big company, even just by reptile world standards. It is a daily challenge. Folks don't get into the industry, and have success, to make money. Folks like BHB and Constrictors Unlimited have built a long track record. Their work and effort is based on passion for the animals. It helps if they are strong businessmen, but a lot of these types of guys have spent years spinning their wheels, digging dumb holes (that they then have to get back out of), and/or making slow steady progress through lots of hard work in order to be where they are today, to be classified, often derisively, as a "big breeder".

Mike Wilbanks in particular joined our TRR talk at NARBC Anaheim, discussing the evolution of the industry, and part of his story was the years of struggle to gain a foothold in the industry, selling dollars worth while the guy next to him sold tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands. He persevered, over years, and built a fine reputation and a significant company.

There are "bad guys" in the industry, but carelessly tossing folks like BHB and Mike Wilbanks into such a group, much less "all of them" is ignorant, wrong, and disrespectful.

I have heard the trials and tribulations, the frustrations of these particular "big guys" first hand. I have heard it from others as well. I am grateful that they have the drive and passion to keep their nose down and keep doing the best job they possibly can.

(I also have first hand experience with these issues, so it is easy to empathize, and it makes such negative blanket statements so hurtful to hear)

Very well said Robyn!!! Very well said.

sent from my incubator

[Pythonfriend]

To deviate slightly from the debate at hand, what precisely is the difference between the Scaleless that Brian produced and the Derma from several years ago? Other than the Derma having a smattering of scales along its flanks, these appear to have the same anotomical irregularities that the Derma did. Is there an absolute difference between the two lines of animal? And what exactly happened to the Derma? I know it was crazy-big in the community, but I haven't found a thread detailing the situation clearly. Not looking for debate, just honest straightforward answers.

one difference is that in the context of the deme ball, there was never a mention of scaleles head BPs. the ones from BHB are produced by scaleless head to scaleless head, for 25% fully scaleless. Also the ones from BHB dont have random scales scattered anywhere, they are 100% scaleless. So i think its different genes at work.

About what happened to the deme ball, i didnt hear anything too specific, what i gather is that something happened to the breeder and the whole collection was lost. we dont even know if the deme was a random singularity or something genetic.

[Xaila]

one difference is that in the context of the deme ball, there was never a mention of scaleles head BPs. the ones from BHB are produced by scaleless head to scaleless head, for 25% fully scaleless. Also the ones from BHB dont have random scales scattered anywhere, they are 100% scaleless. So i think its different genes at work.

About what happened to the deme ball, i didnt hear anything too specific, what i gather is that something happened to the breeder and the whole collection was lost. we dont even know if the deme was a random singularity or something genetic.

What I've heard is that the original owner of the Derma Ball went to jail and most of his collection died, including the Derma and all of its offspring. The 'Purple Haze' in 2007 died before breeding.

Apparently these guys are eating well, judging by some of Brian's Facebook and YouTube comments to people recently.

[Pythonfriend]

oh and.... they deserve some credit, after all, this is where the pictures leaked:

http://www.herpnation.com/hn-gallery...zine-issue-14/

one of the leaked images is on the title of this issue of Herp Nation Magazine. Scaleless BPs will also be a big topic in this issue of the magazine.

[Robyn@SYR]

That is actually not the source of the leak : )

Brian sent a pic to a friend of his that posted it to their Twitter and tagged him, not realizing what a big deal it would be in the reptile community, and that the pics were still unreleased : )

[Crotalids]

Passionate you say?



I don't think so.

[OhhWatALoser]

Passionate you say?



I don't think so.

Read about his snake "Satan" and why that one snake is kept in a tight cage while his other big ones are kept in the bigger caging right to the left of that rack.

[Bugmom]

Passionate you say?



I don't think so.

You should probably not criticize someone when you don't know the "why" behind what they do. Ignorance is not, in fact, bliss, when it's used in an attempt to harm or discredit others.

[Crotalids]

What about these two? Do they also have feeding issues?

What a load of rubbish. Commonly an excuse used by people who cannot be bothered to give adequately sized enclosures to their snakes "Oh it won't feed when it's in a bigger one".

Of course it won't, if all you do is place the snake in a big enclosure with a water bowl. But of course, business comes first, forget that you're keeping snakes in sub par conditions.

I keep all my snakes in large enclosures, guess what, they all feed. Including when my Malayan pit vipers were born, the female fed in a 3ft enclosure even when she was 3 inches - because my enclosure was set up correctly.

Any snake will feed, in any enclosure, if you're prepared to set it up correctly and provide what it needs to feel secure.