Prevalence of Salmonella?

[Pythonfriend]

i think i have something to share here...

i visit the munich reptile sanctuary every now and then, its very good. and the tours are very educational.

and the experts there (im talking one universitary professor for veterinary medicine with expert knowledge on reptiles, a few professional veterinarians, most of them specialized in reptiles, a few vet students and other volunteers)... anyway when they do a tour they go out of their way to shatter this myth.

they have hundreds of reptiles, sometimes close to 1000, covering all species, they get in plenty of sick reptiles, and its several people in daily contact with reptiles. they get entire shipments of wild caught reptiles that got ceised at the border, rescues in bad condition, everything you can imagine.

and none of the employees got salmonella from any reptile. never happened. not once in all these years.

i rest my case. if a sanctuary of this caliber says it doesnt happen, then i dont believe it happens.

[Surrealle]

Also according to WebMD a cough is the first sign of pancreas cancer.

People can lie, stretch the truth, and give misinformation at will on the internet.

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I agree that WebMD is not always a reliable source. However, if you google "salmonella rodents", many sites will come up, including CDC and FDA articles.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/disea...monellosis.htm

"Also, pocket pets (guinea pigs and rodents like hamsters), dogs, cats, birds (including pet and wild birds), horses, and farm animals (goats, calves, sheep) can pass Salmonella to people."

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm344319.htm

"These germs can be found in the feces of many different animals, such as reptiles, amphibians, rodents, live poultry and others, or in the areas where these animals live and roam. These germs can also be found in water in tanks or aquaria where certain animals, like turtles or water frogs, live as pets."

I know you should be skeptical with anything you read online, but these are two organizations whose job it is to research this kind of thing. And it is not that difficult to test for certain types of bacteria, viruses, etc. So I'm inclined to believe that any reptile that eats rodents can come into contact with salmonella, regardless of whether it is wild caught or captive bred. That's all I'm saying, please don't read more into my statement than there is. I'm not claiming that you will automatically (or ever) get sick from it; nor am I saying every snake carries it. I'm just saying it's possible, and I personally would not rely on my snake's origin as a guarantee that it is free from salmonella.

[Kodieh]

They basically say that feces are bad, who doesn't know that? Literally, every animal in the world can give you salmonella. Now, I said can. Not will. Maybe even has the chance is a better wording. Or, has the potential.

Relevant to the topic at hand though, for me anyway as I don't feed live, is if salmonella is killed of in freezing temps. I don't know if that's been touched yet in this aged thread.

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[treeboa]

Pardon the bump, but I was reading up on this and according to WebMD:

"Reptiles, baby chicks and ducklings, and small rodents such as hamsters are particularly likely to carry Salmonella. You should always wash your hands immediately after handling one of these animals, even if the animal is healthy. Adults should also be careful that children wash their hands after handling reptiles, pet turtles, baby chicks or ducklings, or small rodents."

So, presumably, your reptile can easily become exposed to salmonella just from being fed [rodents], regardless of whether it's CB or not.

A couple years ago RodentPro (and I heard rumours of another company) had rodents test positive for Salmonella. Other suppliers all had their stock test negative and RodentPro has been checked since and hasn't tested positive again. I doubt the same could be said of the chicken and chicken egg industry. If you're going to worry about salmonella from your reptiles you might as well also worry about getting hit by lightening, getting cancer, and the world ending because of a giant meteor.

[treeboa]

They basically say that feces are bad, who doesn't know that? Literally, every animal in the world can give you salmonella. Now, I said can. Not will. Maybe even has the chance is a better wording. Or, has the potential.

Relevant to the topic at hand though, for me anyway as I don't feed live, is if salmonella is killed of in freezing temps. I don't know if that's been touched yet in this aged thread.

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Freezing does not kill salmonella. Many people get sick every year from handling previously frozen chicken and not washing their hands or using the same cutting board for raw vegetables.

[Surrealle]

They basically say that feces are bad, who doesn't know that? Literally, every animal in the world can give you salmonella. Now, I said can. Not will. Maybe even has the chance is a better wording. Or, has the potential.

Relevant to the topic at hand though, for me anyway as I don't feed live, is if salmonella is killed of in freezing temps. I don't know if that's been touched yet in this aged thread.

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From what I understand, (and I'm not claiming to be an expert here), freezing does not kill all bacteria, it generally just stops it from multiplying. Bacteria is killed when it is cooked.

This is someone else's quote which I cannot speak to the validity of, but it goes in line with what I've been taught and explains it better than I can.

"Salmonella and other types of bacteria such as E. coli are not killed by freezing. Rather, the cells' metabolisms slow down and they stop dividing. However, when rewarmed, the cells will begin dividing again. The only way to kill salmonella and E. coli is by heating the cells to a temperature which causes them to lyse, or break open. Freezing does not necessarily lyse cells; some cells may die, but many will survive. Microbiologists often freeze colonies of bacteria for later use."

Again, I don't know if this is factual, but until I read otherwise this is what I believe to be true.

[Surrealle]

A couple years ago RodentPro (and I heard rumours of another company) had rodents test positive for Salmonella. Other suppliers all had their stock test negative and RodentPro has been checked since and hasn't tested positive again. I doubt the same could be said of the chicken and chicken egg industry. If you're going to worry about salmonella from your reptiles you might as well also worry about getting hit by lightening, getting cancer, and the world ending because of a giant meteor.

Once again, I was not suggesting anyone worry about contracting salmonella from their snake. I was simply pointing out that I would not rely on their origin to determine whether they carry it, because the rodents they eat may be contaminated with it.

[MarkS]

A couple of random things that I've read through the years. Don't ask me where, I could never find it again.

There are over 1500 different serotypes (subspecies) of salmonella, not all of them are particularly virulent

Salmonella can be present anywhere there is organic material. Paper money has been known to harbor salmonella germs. (so just to be safe, send all of your paper money to me)

You're more likely to contact salmonella from horseback riding then from handling reptiles. (I'm sure we'll hear an uproar from all the horseback riding enthusiasts now, sorry)

I've been handling reptiles for over 30 years and can't think of a single time I could have had salmonella poisoning so I usually don't give it a second thought. I'm not always real vigilant about washing my hands after handling my snakes but I do try very hard not to put any snake poop in my mouth.

[treeboa]

A couple of random things that I've read through the years. Don't ask me where, I could never find it again.

There are over 1500 different serotypes (subspecies) of salmonella, not all of them are particularly virulent

Salmonella can be present anywhere there is organic material. Paper money has been known to harbor salmonella germs. (so just to be safe, send all of your paper money to me)

You're more likely to contact salmonella from horseback riding then from handling reptiles. (I'm sure we'll hear an uproar from all the horseback riding enthusiasts now, sorry)

I've been handling reptiles for over 30 years and can't think of a single time I could have had salmonella poisoning so I usually don't give it a second thought. I'm not always real vigilant about washing my hands after handling my snakes but I do try very hard not to put any snake poop in my mouth.

Like I posted earlier, while salmonella poisoning is no fun (I've had it twice from chicken at a restaurant), usually you are just sick for 3-4 days and move on. Usually only the immuno-suppressed, the very young, and very old get seriously sick with it. Most people who are hospitalized end up there with dehydration from severe diarrhea.

Salmonella is often used as an excuse to call for bans on exotic pets, especially reptiles. They would be better served by going after the poultry industry for faulty processing practices that leave feces on our chicken and makes thousands sick every year. Misplaced priorities.

[Pythonfriend]

i just dont buy it, not at all, not after my local reptile sanctuary (which is excellent) destroyed the myth. read my earlier post, number #21.

i do not see any reptiles as carriers of salmonella. the food, like mice or rats or chickens, may carry it, and that may turn certain reptiles into temporary transmitters of the disease, but reptiles are not a vector and not a harbor for the disease.

in europe, we have a peculiar case: rabies is eradicated, its a really nasty disease. basically when the symptoms set in, the mortality rate for humans is 100%. it can be cured after the infection happens, but when any later symptoms arise, death is certain and there is no way to stop it. In nations where rabies is still frequent, hospitals have dedicated quarantine areas, and special rooms for the sole purpose of having rabies patients die there.

Now we could turn against bats, because in europe bats are the last remaining reservoir of the disease, in all other species rabies is eradicated. But all the species of bats in europe only eat insects and they dont bite anyone.

The point is: compared to that, how harmless are salmonella? its a nuisance, it knocks you out for a few days, but you survive. and you get it as food poisoning. mainly traced back to chicken farms, or to unhygienic conditions in a restaurant. EVEN IF (and i doubt it), but if reptiles are a carrier, why should this be turned against pet reptiles? If anything, wild reptiles are the problem. Also there is a lack of verified cases, just no evidence. And EVEN IF, how could a war against the wild reptile population be justified when europe does NOT go after the bats while a bite from a bat can actually kill a person?


its just phony, its just as phony as the republican-induced government shutdown the USA is facing right now. Restricting or banning reptiles based on unrealistic and falsely perceived salmonella threats? hell no. Tanking the USA economy and holding the nation hostage because of some imagined threats of potential damage to the US economy from the affordable care act? You decide.

The people up there do not make decisions based on facts. When they go against reptiles, expect EXCUSES being brought forward to justify it, but really, there is someone who wants to sell more dogs and cats and rabbits behind it. Salmonella is just one of these excuses.