My personal thoughts on hatchlings with tangled cords

[SquamishSerpents]

Does anybody else have anything to add? I'm glad I posted this as it got some very interesting discussion going!

[Badgemash]

Not sure I can add much, but I'm not planning to cut mine (first ever clutch is incubating). Not for any of the reasons listed, although I think many are spot on, but because I'm just too scared to purposefully poke my eggs with a sharp object with my shakey hands.

[Dave Green]

I'll stick with not cutting eggs due to my comment earlier. I tried to feed 12 babies last night for the first time. They are two weeks old and 8 ate frozen thawed rat pinks. Not bad at all.

[SquamishSerpents]

While it IS a common practice to cut ball python eggs, I think it's wrong to say "everyone" does it. IF someone is cutting eggs, they are far more likely to post pictures of it. So you see lots of pictures of cut eggs. But anyone who doesn't cut eggs isn't going to give daily updates about the eggs they didn't cut. So it only LOOKS like "everyone" is doing it, because those that don't aren't bothering to talk about it except in threads like this.

I know you're still right that not everybody cuts their eggs, but the results of my poll are just as I expected them to be so far. 30 cutters to 8 non-cutters. That's a very small sample of breeders, though. I'm hope with time the poll will gain more results.

[SquamishSerpents]

42 cutters to 16 non-cutters, is the updated poll result.

[SquamishSerpents]

50 cutters, 25 non-cutters

[Neal]

Also you have to take into consideration that breeders on a large scale do this to make sure everything is healthy and what not. Another reason people put a cut in the eggs is so that the snake doesn't drown inside of the egg. I recall somebody recently posting something about their BP dying inside of the egg because it wasn't able to pip through because of a weak tooth. Cutting avoids this. I'm not saying it's a common issue but when you breed on a large scale you're going to have issues no matter what.

[SquamishSerpents]

Did breeders who have DIE hatchlings have necropsies done to find cause of death?

Is there any chance the hatchlings died of causes aside from drowning? How do they know the egg tooth was not lost in the process of it trying to slit the egg open, or even shortly after?

I've had hatchlings with a very visible egg tooth, and hatchlings with absolutely no detectable egg tooth just hours out of the egg. (And I don't cut, ever, so they did their own slitting and the egg tooth disappeared shortly after)

The fact is we have NO data whatsoever on how many develop without egg tooths, how many lose them in the process of pipping, and how many die due to internal defects/undetectable defects that are not visible to the naked eye.

And chances are we likely won't ever get this data.

People can justify cutting in any way they choose. The snakes belong to them and no one else and of course everyone is free to do what they choose. I just won't, because all these reasons for cutting don't have any sound explanations behind them.

When people start getting necropsies done on their DIE hatchlings, I'd be more inclined to believe they were preventing a death by cutting.

However I still won't agree that preventing said death is for the betterment of the species. If a snake is genetically too weak to exit their egg, why should they be in the gene pool?

[Neal]

Did breeders who have DIE hatchlings have necropsies done to find cause of death?

Is there any chance the hatchlings died of causes aside from drowning? How do they know the egg tooth was not lost in the process of it trying to slit the egg open, or even shortly after?

I've had hatchlings with a very visible egg tooth, and hatchlings with absolutely no detectable egg tooth just hours out of the egg. (And I don't cut, ever, so they did their own slitting and the egg tooth disappeared shortly after)

The fact is we have NO data whatsoever on how many develop without egg tooths, how many lose them in the process of pipping, and how many die due to internal defects/undetectable defects that are not visible to the naked eye.

And chances are we likely won't ever get this data.

People can justify cutting in any way they choose. The snakes belong to them and no one else and of course everyone is free to do what they choose. I just won't, because all these reasons for cutting don't have any sound explanations behind them.

When people start getting necropsies done on their DIE hatchlings, I'd be more inclined to believe they were preventing a death by cutting.

However I still won't agree that preventing said death is for the betterment of the species. If a snake is genetically too weak to exit their egg, why should they be in the gene pool?

This wasn't a breeder who it happened to. It was a guy that had just bred two of his BP's together, though he coud of been a breeder but I don't recall. It was posted last month I think. He explained everything and it was logical, you'd have to search though because I don't even know which BP thread it was under. I'll cut, but I'll take my friends advice as I've been talking to him about breeding and he does it on a very large scale. I just won't make a large cut like I see some people do, but probably a mere 1/2" so it's still a tight fit.

[SquamishSerpents]

I'm not meaning the specific case you're talking about, I just mean in general, I've heard time and time again that people cut to prevent drowning.

Show me the hatchling actually drowned and I may believe it.

Until then...the scissors are reserved for other things