my biggest argument for them being the same genetic mutation: the skewed sex ratio in both of their offspring. this has never been seen before with any other mutation in balls (or any other mutation in anything as far as i'm aware). on top of looking the exact same.. it's kind of undeniable isn't it? has nothing to do with what the big breeders say. if they swore to me they were two different mutations, i would still stand firm in believing they're the same.