New arrivals :)

[BFE Pets]

Lol thanks. It was a good rant btw. I've noticed some very conflicting advice on this site when it comes to boas. Most times that I see advice that I don't necessarily agree with, it's someone ripping another person for how they care for their boa. Funny thing is most often it's a BP keeper telling a boa keeper that they are wrong and "this is how's it's done."

Kinda like everybody is an expert on all snakes lol.

On a side note there is tons of info on this site that is sound, and correct.


0.1.0 Normal Ball Python
0.1.0 Columbian B.C.I. 2013
1.0.0 EBV Red Group Pastel Hypo Jungle B.C.I. 2013

Evenstar is one of our resident boa experts imo. I respect her advice and opinions highly but there are other ways to do stuff that isn't the so called "norm" that work well for some people. I am not an expert and have just recently gotten back into boas after a decade hiatus. But if you decide to keep yours together pm me and ill be happy to share what little experiences I have had in the matter.

[Expensive hobby]

Evenstar is one of our resident boa experts imo. I respect her advice and opinions highly but there are other ways to do stuff that isn't the so called "norm" that work well for some people. I am not an expert and have just recently gotten back into boas after a decade hiatus. But if you decide to keep yours together pm me and ill be happy to share what little experiences I have had in the matter.

Well thank you

I appreciate the help.


0.1.0 Normal Ball Python
0.1.0 Columbian B.C.I. 2013
1.0.0 EBV Red Group Pastel Hypo Jungle B.C.I. 2013

[Gio]

I would normally agree 100% with evenstar (and the rest of you). however this is one where our opinions differ just a bit. I also have heard for years that breeders leave males and females together about 11 months out of the year. that 12th month is when the female is about to drop her brood. I also have housed boas together successfully in the past and never seen their health deteriorate over any amount of time. Do any of you have studies to back up this idea? or have any of you personally seen it within your own collection? have you even ever tried to house 2 boas together long term? I'm not suggesting just anyone should do it. there are a lot of things to consider to do it correctly. certainly just having one big enclosure with a hot spot, a cold side, and a couple hides doesnt justify throwing 2 snakes in together. but it can/does get done safely and effectively. As for the whole "what if theres a regurge" issue..... I'm sorry but if one of my snakes regurges i've got bigger issues than trying to figure out which one did it. i'm checking temps, heat pads, T-stats, and my stock of prey to see why there was a regurge. Boas are solitary animals except during breeding. you shouldnt house them together. Youre doing it all wrong. hey op..... Find someone (probably one of the 10ish breeders that told you it was ok) and ask them what they are doing and how they are doing it and for how long they've been doing it. make an educated decision on what you want to try. I dont give a rats hiney which way you choose to do it. but make an informed decision, keep acurate records, keep us posted on how they are doing, keep the pics coming, and if you are successful in what ever method you choose write a book about it called The New Guide to Boa Husbandry Bible So we all have a reference to point to when we tell some one thats not the way to do it! Instead of cuz I said so.

I don't think anybody was ripping on him. The studies you asked for are pretty much field observations that state boas are solitary and do not live in groups. Russo, Rentfro and actual herpetologists like O'shea note their observations in the wild. Some exceptions include groups of thermo regulating boas and breeding broods. Male boas WILL fight over territory and a female. Your point is noted in captivity and I believe it can be done but with some added risk. Nothing bad may ever happen but in general most agree they are more comfortable alone. No disrespect to you or your point. Just did not want you to think anybody was being a killjoy because they said separate is more advisable. As you said do what works best for you and take notes.

[Evenstar]

It IS possible for experienced keepers to house certain snake species in communal habitats, but it is not generally recommended for the average keeper. I've had snakes for years and I'd never do it with the species I keep (most of which are boas). You will see a decline in their health over time if you continue to keep them together.

Just emphasizing what I said earlier. It is definitely possible to keep 2 snakes together, just not generally the best way to keep them.

Man, I don't know if that was supportive, offensive, defensive, indifferent, sarcastic, or none of the above lol.

Basically I will take advice if it is sound and works for me, and I promise all of you that I will give my babies the utmost care and attention.

If I do something wrong, shout it out. I want to take good care of them.

Also be aware tho that these are not my first snakes or reptiles.

Right now we have 12 snakes in my house and all are doing very well.

Never said you were a beginner. And I also said I could tell you cared about your snakes very much.

Lmao! Maybe a Lil bit of all the above. I'm sorry for the rant I haven't slept in days due to personal drama and it just rubbed me the wrong way. Seemed like you were getting gang banged over a subject that I know personally can be done safely. If you ask a lot of the so called experts in the hobby there are 3 ways of doing anything. The wrong way (bad things happen), the right way (popular general consensus that seems to work well), and the way they do it because it works for them. I guess all I was getting at is however you do it take notes of what works and what don't and share the knowledge. Good luck and enjoy those cuties!

Not jumping down anyone's throat. Just had a concern and expressed it.

Lol thanks. It was a good rant btw. I've noticed some very conflicting advice on this site when it comes to boas. Most times that I see advice that I don't necessarily agree with, it's someone ripping another person for how they care for their boa. Funny thing is most often it's a BP keeper telling a boa keeper that they are wrong and "this is how's it's done."

Kinda like everybody is an expert on all snakes lol.

On a side note there is tons of info on this site that is sound, and correct.

Just want to be clear here. I keep boas. I have BCI and BCO. I do have 2 resident ball pythons (and a couple of other species), but I do not frequent the BP forums. I haunt the boa threads, lol. I don't offer much advise on BPs because that is not my area of expertise. I like BP.net because of its friendly atmosphere, but I converse on the boa forums almost exclusively. The advise I offer is based on YEARS of experience and research. This doesn't mean that my methods are the only way of doing things and it doesn't mean I am always right. But it is what it is - sound advise whether you agree with it or not. And you don't have to. Remember, I did say that it IS possible to successfully house multiple snakes together, just that it is not generally recommended.

Evenstar is one of our resident boa experts imo. I respect her advice and opinions highly but there are other ways to do stuff that isn't the so called "norm" that work well for some people. I am not an expert and have just recently gotten back into boas after a decade hiatus. But if you decide to keep yours together pm me and ill be happy to share what little experiences I have had in the matter.

Thanks Damon!

I don't think anybody was ripping on him. The studies you asked for are pretty much field observations that state boas are solitary and do not live in groups. Russo, Rentfro and actual herpetologists like O'shea note their observations in the wild. Some exceptions include groups of thermo regulating boas and breeding broods. Male boas WILL fight over territory and a female. Your point is noted in captivity and I believe it can be done but with some added risk. Nothing bad may ever happen but in general most agree they are more comfortable alone. No disrespect to you or your point. Just did not want you to think anybody was being a killjoy because they said separate is more advisable. As you said do what works best for you and take notes.

Definitely was not ripping on him at all. Thanks for referencing those experts Gio - was planning on doing that and you beat me to it! LoL....

The important thing for anyone to take away from this thread is to do your research!! Make educated decisions! If your lifestyle and personal situations lead you to keep your snakes a certain way and you manage to keep them healthy and stress-free that way, than I am the last person to tell you that you are doing it wrong.

[DooLittle]

Just my 2 cents, I wholeheartedly trust information from Evenstar.

Grats on the new boas!

I too, would house them separately.

[Gio]

Totally feeding related but this shows they are NOT friends. These are pythons and this is obviously a battle over a food item but you can see the solitary nature here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnfrzVAyMy4

There is a hierarchy amongst many mammals like lions, wolves and such. Most snakes don't share pack mentality and really do fend for themselves.

Again I'm NOT saying anybody is right or wrong, and I know captivity has it's own set of rules and any time there is human intervention there are a lot of factors that change but I truly believe that when herpetologists explain that snakes, including boas are solitary they have some fairly researched info.

Hats off to anybody who can make it work. I think it's for sure doable. Coming from a PET owner situation only and NOT being a breeder I have no reason to put two snakes together. If I had 2 boas, I would enjoy them just the same in their individual enclosures.

If I could not house 2 separately, I simply would only have one.

Again, this is just what works for me. It's been stated that people have and do have success housing boas together.

I can not argue with it.

I can only say that for the most part boas are solitary animals.

Peace out and NO hard feelings to anybody!!

[Evenstar]

^^^ Very well said.



I really REALLY hate the fact that this is a picture of ball pythons since, as was mentioned above, we are discussing BOAS, but it is still relevant and provides a pretty accurate picture of what can happen when two snakes are housed together....

*** Warning - graphic!

[Gio]

Just an FYI, I am not your average PET owner even though I just own one boa and one Royal as a pet. I go through somewhat berserk amounts of research on animals I own. Including the dogs that I have been protection training for the last 13 years.

IF you are at all interested in boas and big constricting snakes there are several books and research pages available.

This particular web page caught my attention a while back and I bookmarked it.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2009/1202/pdf/OF09-1202.pdf

You can see the massive amount of research and sighting involved here. Several experts are mentioned in this work.

Though it is not specific to our conversation here, there is mention of boas going "solo" in the wild. However there is also mention of some denning together in Dominica and some laying side by side during basking for increased thermo regulatory benefits.

I'm sorry this is WAY of topic and I really only wanted to tell Expensive Hobby I was excited and enjoyed the snakes. I loved the pics and only wish for good things.

My ONLY mention of the separate caging was based on research and good advice from credible keepers like Evenstar and a whole host of other captive owner breeders.

Outside of that, I'm a complete nobody.

Enjoy this link though. If you like constrictors, it's a good read.

FYI. You have to scroll a long way down to get to the parts that include the BC.

[Expensive hobby]

Just an FYI, I am not your average PET owner even though I just own one boa and one Royal as a pet. I go through somewhat berserk amounts of research on animals I own. Including the dogs that I have been protection training for the last 13 years.

IF you are at all interested in boas and big constricting snakes there are several books and research pages available.

This particular web page caught my attention a while back and I bookmarked it.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2009/1202/pdf/OF09-1202.pdf

You can see the massive amount of research and sighting involved here. Several experts are mentioned in this work.

Though it is not specific to our conversation here, there is mention of boas going "solo" in the wild. However there is also mention of some denning together in Dominica and some laying side by side during basking for increased thermo regulatory benefits.

I'm sorry this is WAY of topic and I really only wanted to tell Expensive Hobby I was excited and enjoyed the snakes. I loved the pics and only wish for good things.

My ONLY mention of the separate caging was based on research and good advice from credible keepers like Evenstar and a whole host of other captive owner breeders.

Outside of that, I'm a complete nobody.

Enjoy this link though. If you like constrictors, it's a good read.

FYI. You have to scroll a long way down to get to the parts that include the BC.

Well guys I'm gonna be gone for a week reading that research lol. 398 page, of very small point font lol. No doubt lots of info!

Thank you for the link. I will be referring to that for a long time.



On a side note: my hot spot is achieved using 2 panels of flexwatt, achieving a temp of 91° and my ambients are 75°, and cold side is 72°. I'm sure it needs to be adjusted a bit, and my humidity is sky high, so I will probably be adding a heat bulb to help dry things up a little and raise ambients.

That said, my hot side seems right, and my male loves it, but my female seems to favor the cool side. Any thoughts on this?


0.1.0 Normal Ball Python
0.1.0 Columbian B.C.I. 2013
1.0.0 EBV Red Group Pastel Hypo Jungle B.C.I. 2013

[Evenstar]

Well, right now, they are probably seeking a position in the cage where they feel the most secure since your home is a new environment for them. Once they settle in and realize there's no boogy man waiting for them, they'll start to thermoregulate more.

As you've noted, your temps need to be adjusted a wee bit. I've found that my boas tend to like slightly cooler temps than my pythons. And the Argentines like it even cooler. I keep my BCIs at 77-78 ambient with an 88 hotspot. Humidity is good at about 60% +/-.

I've also found that belly heat seems to be better for babies, but radiant heat panels do fine for adults if that is what the keeper wants to do.



Hey Gio - thanks for posting that link! I think I'm gonna be on vacay for awhile reading that too..........