The only thing I was arguing was that the bull snakes are considered a type of gopher snake and are very similar. This doesn't matter if capes are separated. Yes there are some differences between the two. But they are in no way a completely separate species. The difference between bull snakes and gophers are only as large differences between checkered garter snake and butlers garter snakes. They are still both garter snakes. Just like bull snakes and gopher snakes. Saying bull snakes get larger than all other gopher snakes is irrelevant. Different types of gopher snakes are either smaller or larger than other types of gophers. Just because bull snakes tend to be larger than other gopher snakes does not mean the are not gopher snakes. If San Diego gopher snakes get larger than sonorans does that mean sonorans aren't gopher snakes? The paper you provided never said one time that bull snakes are not type of gopher snakes. And If you want to get scientific here you go http://www.asihcopeiaonline.org/doi/...P%5D2.0.CO%3B2 this abstract clearly defines Pituophis catenifer as the Gopher snake. heres more http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...nticated=false. http://www.kingsnake.com/pituophis/species.html This website clearly shows the bull snakes as a type of gopher snake via phylogeny tree. Also, just because you observed different sound and or behavior from two different snakes does not mean they are all that different either. My male and female bull snake act nothing like one another. My male hisses and does all the typical behaviors. My female is feisty until i get her out of her cage. Then she is chilled out like a ball python. Since bull snakes are the same genus and species as most gopher snakes. They are simply a subspecies of gopher. In other words, Bull snakes are a type of gopher snake.Originally Posted by Lucas339
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