Quote Originally Posted by goopyguy View Post
The only reason I listed pituophis catenifer is that every snake labeled "pituophis catenifer" ssp. is considered a gopher snake.
No. Again, look at the last link I posted. Pituophis catenifer is classified as gophers and bulls. And this species doesn't even include the cape and baja cape gophers. Again, stop getting hung up on common names for this. Read the first link I posted.


Quote Originally Posted by goopyguy View Post
The bull snake is Pituophis Catenifer sayi. So they are technically the same species. Just a different subspecies right? This a question I am not trying to be a prick. I don't know a heck of a lot about taxonomy. I just know that "Pituophis" is the genus and "catenifer" is the species.
As I have said time and time again, it is a multi-species complex. When scoring animals, sub-species technically score as species when doing stats and such. Technically speaking, breaking animals up into sub-species really means eventually, given en enough time, they will become their own species due to many factors. This is an entirely separate subject that would take more than just a few posts to explain. It also requires understanding of genetics, natural selection and ecology.

Quote Originally Posted by goopyguy View Post
As far as looking different. I think bull snakes and gophers look and behave very similarly. They may have different colors/patterns but they are not that different. The way I see it, Gopher to bull snake is the same as Eastern Garter to Common garter snake. They are basically the same snake. Just some minor differences.
Again, having kept and bred both bulls and gophers, they aren't that similar. Look at the picture I posted of my big bull. None of my gophers will ever get this big. A few species of "gopher" look similar to bulls but if you look at the heads, they don't look at all alike. I suggest you look up head scale counts for this complex. This will show you the differences in the head shape and scales. They also act different. The majority of my gophers (basins and capes) are secretive while my bulls are more curious. They even sound different when they are being defensive.