Bel x bel

[satomi325]

Erm..

I don't know the ratio or statistics, but there are cases where BELs(Super Lesser) are blind.
Snakesrkewl has a pair who are blind.

[galequin]

Intrigued... I'd like to know some more info on this. I was aware of the Bug eye deformity but never knew super lessers can go blind or be birthed blind.

[jkube620]

I don't know the ratio or statistics, but there are cases where BELs(Super Lesser) are blind.
Snakesrkewl has a pair who are blind.

From what ive found from various threads that ive been apart of on here super lessers, super butters, and lesser butters all put out bug eyed offspring about 50% of the time. I have not however heard of them going blind and as a side note some peoples' experiences suggest that snakes born with bug eyes eventually grow into their eyes.

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[TheSnakeGeek]

i have 1.1 BELs (both white diamond [het russo x het russo]) and i plan on breeding them together for 100% BELs. theoretically, all of the babies should be white snakes and free of health issues.

[paulh]

From what ive found from various threads that ive been apart of on here super lessers, super butters, and lesser butters all put out bug eyed offspring about 50% of the time. I have not however heard of them going blind and as a side note some peoples' experiences suggest that snakes born with bug eyes eventually grow into their eyes.

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Hmm. That makes me wonder whether bugeyes are caused by overpressure under the spectacle that slowly reduces in some cases. I've read that vitamin (A??) deficiency can cause thickening of the tears and plugging of the tear duct. If so, the mother might benefit from a vitamin supplement over several months before ovulation.

[Kodieh]

With that i want to say they have genetic eye issues, and a certain percentage of them, definitively in the two-digit percentages, go blind. Blind ball pythons still can live a perfectly fine life, but its not something to aim for, or is it?

Please cite your sources, fear mongering on words is futile here.

[Mike41793]

Please cite your sources, fear mongering on words is futile here.

x2. I've heard of bug eye issues but have NEVER heard of them going blind. If there were 10%+ going blind i'm pretty surprised i haven't heard of it.

[Pythonfriend]

That there is an eye-issue with super lesser/ super butter / lesser butter exists, and occurs at quite a high frequency, this is uncontroversial i think.

About my source for the issue causing blindness, well, i remembered someone on this forum owns some that are blind, and Satomi knows who:

I don't know the ratio or statistics, but there are cases where BELs(Super Lesser) are blind.
Snakesrkewl has a pair who are blind.

and even if they dont go blind.... I dont think im leaning out of the window too far when i speculate that deformed eyes likely lead to blurred vision. Which, in humans, gets fixed with glasses or contact lenses, but snakes dont like to wear those I dont have sources for that, but it seems plausible that oddly shaped eyes will be less likely to focus properly.

and panic, i dont know, its known that blind BPs do very well in captivity and can eat and breed very well and you dont even notice it when handling them. So we are far away from panicland anyway. By contrast, spine kinks or severe neuro or skull deformities are the really nasty stuff, eye issues not so much.

its not something you must avoid at all costs, but with the BEL gene complex you have so many alternatives (like super het russo / white diamond, like TheSnakeGeek mentioned), so its so easy to avoid that i say: Why not simply avoid it?

[Mike41793]

So one person has a pair who are blind and 10%+ of them are blind? What if it was another issue, like an incubation issue that caused them to be blind...? Spouting off stuff like this without anything to back it is how rumours and myths start and get perpetuated.

Yea the bug eyes might make it a bit harder for them to see but we baby them so much in captivity that it's not a big deal at all imo. Spiders wobble but tons of people still breed them. Should we stop breeding spiders too? In some breeding projects a super lesser could be really useful. Het Russos are ugly imo. Sure you have a white snake but the combos you make won't be as cool as the ones you could make with the lesser gene.

[jkube620]

So one person has a pair who are blind and 10%+ of them are blind? What if it was another issue, like an incubation issue that caused them to be blind...? Spouting off stuff like this without anything to back it is how rumours and myths start and get perpetuated.

Yea the bug eyes might make it a bit harder for them to see but we baby them so much in captivity that it's not a big deal at all imo. Spiders wobble but tons of people still breed them. Should we stop breeding spiders too? In some breeding projects a super lesser could be really useful. Het Russos are ugly imo. Sure you have a white snake but the combos you make won't be as cool as the ones you could make with the lesser gene.

Very true and ultimately its up to you, the breeder, to decide if the possible disabilities are worth the genetic possibilities. In captivity most deformities arent an issue especially ones that are mostly aesthetic such as bug eyes. Personally I avoid creating super lessers, super butters, and buter lessers because Id rather avoid a deformity if I can even if the deformity doesnt affect the snake in a negative way. But that is just my opinion.

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