2 Father's 1 egg

[Archimedes]

There was someone who posted on here a little while back, I can't find the thread.... but someone had a clutch laid of 10 eggs, but one of the egg masses had a slug that developed onto another egg, which actually allowed the embryo on the slug to grow viably. Both the good egg and the slug were candling strong veins, and the poster hypothesized that the two babies were able to move freely between the two eggs. If anyone can find that thread, it's a cool thing to see-- I thought I'd subscribed to it, but it's not in my list... So 11 babies out of a 10-egg 1-slug clutch. Neat stuff, and the only time I've ever heard of fraternal twins in BP clutches, because the eggs developed in such a way that they were attached.

[Redneck_Crow]

Markus Jayne had a pastel and a normal hatch out of the same egg.

http://www.ballpython.ca/images/bree...al/twins_b.jpg

[Archimedes]

Markus Jayne had a pastel and a normal hatch out of the same egg.

http://www.ballpython.ca/images/bree...al/twins_b.jpg

Huh! What were the pairings on that? Was it a case of two different fathers, or variations within the genetics of the two babies, with the same sire?

I am so interested in this.

(As I probably should be, with a future major in bio/herpetology. Hahah.)

[Redneck_Crow]

I'm guessing that two ova may have been stuck together, separately fertilized, and the leathery shell formed over the entire mass. But that is only a guess.

[bubblz]

Maybe if genetics were that cut and dry, just black and white but they're not. Just because you haven't seen it or may be aware of it happening doesn't mean it can't happen. If two males fertilized the same egg, I'll use the example given earlier with a spider male and pin male to a female. Then like identical twins the ovum should split into two separate embryos. With one being a spider and the other a pin or a normal. Not all identical twins are identical. look up Semi Identical twins. Genetics find a way to get the job done one way or another, sometimes things work out and sometimes not so much the right way but it happens whether all embryos live or not.

[angllady2]

There have actually been a number of documented cases of twins hatching from the same egg that were two different morphs. I've seen it here several times. I've always wondered how it worked, I don't understand genetics completely, but it's pretty darn cool regardless.

Gale

[kc261]

Each embryo will have exactly 1 father because each ovum will have been fertilized by exactly 1 sperm. I suppose there is a 1-in-a-million chance that 2 sperm could enter the egg, but if that did happen, the embryo would not survive. It would not even get close to hatching.

If there can be 2 ova in one "egg" (as in the thing with a leathery shell, not the thing that is synonymous with ovum), then there could be 2 fathers for 1 egg: one each for each twin. Based on the comments above about 2 different morphs hatching out of one egg, I have to assume this is possible.

Any embryo that develops far enough to get even close to hatching will always have only one father.

[Pythonfriend]

found some data about how it is in humans:


if two sperm cells fertilize one egg at the same time, it leads to a triploid set of chromosomes, 69 chromosomes instead of the usual 46. It happens about 2-3% of the time, and is responsible for 25% of miscarriages in humans. If it doesnt end in miscarriage, the baby will die shortly after birth.


so, it does happen but its just 100% absolutely deadly. if two sperm cells manage to unite with one egg, its doomed and will perish.


apart from that, i think two kinds of twins can be possible inside an egg: Two individual fertilized eggs fuse and get one shell, leading to two different twins in one eggshell. Or one fertilized egg splits somewhere along the way, leading to two genetically identical twins hatching from one egg. one must be true because people sometimes hatch out two morphs from one egg, the other must be true because people sometimes get two-headed snakes.

[reptileexperts]

This is a basic scientific principle that applies to most, if not all, of nature. There's always a winner in the sperm race, no matter how "close" it seems. The winner is the father. The loser(s) die off.

There is no such thing as "fraternal" twins in ball pythons. For fraternal twins to occur, it's still two embryos fertilized by two different sperm. That means two different eggs, or sluggy eggs that managed to get attached. Identical twins happen as a division of one embryo to begin developing into two embryos, far more common, at least in oviparids.

Actually the winner of the sperm race is the loser - the first sperm that reaches the egg just weakens the wall, and then the second place sperm actually fertilizes. All those stories of "You were the fastest sperm once" is actually false - you came in second even at birth . . . sorry to pop that bubble.

As for this sitaution - it can't happen. You can't have tripoidy - the DNA would reject one of the sets of chromosomes as foreign and they would simply be disolved - if and only if - two sperm did enter the egg from two different fathers at the same time.

Cheers,

[TheSnakeGeek]

Actually the winner of the sperm race is the loser - the first sperm that reaches the egg just weakens the wall, and then the second place sperm actually fertilizes. All those stories of "You were the fastest sperm once" is actually false - you came in second even at birth . . . sorry to pop that bubble.

you just snuffed out the very reason i've been so cocky my whole life..