What do you guys think of this? I need opinions ASAP!

[snakesRkewl]

A female stopping eating is not, I repeat not a sign she's wanting to breed.
They do quite the opposite in fact, most will go on feeding terrors before breeding since they know they need the extra meals to produce nice viable eggs.
I start females breeding at that size no problem, but they are eating or they don't get started.
Also realize moving her can throw her off feed for awhile, not something you want to happen at that size.
Also quarantine takes time too. Lots to think about before just doing a breeder loan ...

That said the arrangement isn't bad if it truly is a friend who won't mess you over.
Butterbee

[Pythonfriend]

you said its a friend, so ill just assume it is a friend. That settles all the nonsense about how much you know or dont know that person and how much diseases his collection may or may not carry. You are friends, so you know him, WE DO NOT. That settles it.

and then i have no cause for concern. Just try, potentially extra eggs for free, why not? Do it. You know what a friend is and when a friend of you is also breeding snakes, you know whats going on there. Unless my definition of friend is fundamentally different from your definition of friend, you are taking no risk or low risk and if it goes wrong..... he owes you one. And will compensate later. So do it.

[Maddumpling]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the weight but more on the girth of the snake. Snake that is 1500grams but is skinny doesn't necessarily mean you can still breed it. I remember talking to Brian gundy about this and he had a snake that was ready to breed and was like 1800-2000 grams, but it was skinny and was just back on feed. So in my opinion its more on the girth of the snake and how plump she is and not necessarily so much on weight.

[Trackstrong83]

I've been to his house and seen his collection multiple times. He is actually an ex-professor of mine at my college. He is writing up a contract today with everything that we agreed on and we both are going to sign it and both get a copy.

I've read here on the breeding FAQs that a girl should have around 500 grams for every foot, mine is just at 3 feet and 1400 grams.

Thank you guys for all of your help. I'm still mulling the idea over

[youbeyouibei]

I'd say go for it but get EVERYTHING in writing, signed/witnessed and notarized by both parties with each retaining a copy of the agreement. Hopefully your friendship is such it wouldn't require that but on the off chance something comes up or greed rears it's ugly head, you have a legal recourse left available to you. And I'll second the butter bee for the male, mostly because I love me some buttah, lol! Good luck and let us know how things work out, I'd be interested to see how it goes for you and what the outcome is.

[JMinILM]

If the only off spring that you would consider keeping is a morph female, then have you considered putting stipulations in the contract to cover if there is only one. For example if you use the champagne and the result is one 1.1 champagne and a few normals, then he is going to want to pick the champ girl with the first pick and that will be the only snake in the clutch you will want. That sets up a senario for disapointment and/or resentment on both sides. If beforehand you agree that you get a champ girl, but then offset the deal as needed with more than half the snakes and/or some cash going to him to ensure that the deal is even handed, you are much less likely to have hard feelings at the end. Otherwise you will have to kill the odds for everyone to be truely happy.

As to which male to go with. The Champ and butter bee would both give you pretty snakes that have good genes to breed later on. A female pastel het pied or pastel OG would both have great genetics to breed, but will not be as pretty this generation. It all depends on what you want to produce and male you will be getting in a few years to breed to the female you hope to get now.

[snakesRkewl]

If the only off spring that you would consider keeping is a morph female, then have you considered putting stipulations in the contract to cover if there is only one. For example if you use the champagne and the result is one 1.1 champagne and a few normals, then he is going to want to pick the champ girl with the first pick and that will be the only snake in the clutch you will want. That sets up a senario for disapointment and/or resentment on both sides. If beforehand you agree that you get a champ girl, but then offset the deal as needed with more than half the snakes and/or some cash going to him to ensure that the deal is even handed, you are much less likely to have hard feelings at the end.

Since he's adding a $100 snake to a $500 to $600 male, he can't demand a female since he has second pick.
You roll with the punches when it comes to breeder loans especially when you bring 1/5th the value of the pairing to the table.

[Chkadii]

Since he's adding a $100 snake to a $500 to $600 male, he can't demand a female since he has second pick.
You roll with the punches when it comes to breeder loans especially when you bring 1/5th the value of the pairing to the table.

Even if he did end up with the champagne male (continuing the 1.1 champagne scenario), he could have his friend sell it and buy a female of his choice with that money. He could also ask to trade his choices in for a female of equal value from one of his friends other clutches that are in the works instead of getting cash back, since the friend will be doing the selling legwork anyway.

[JMinILM]

I'm not saying he should demand a female as his pick. I am saying that you can game plan likely senarios and agree ahead of time what the outcome will be. You can also vary from the every other pick in order to get him the one snake he really wants without upsetting the value equalibrium.

I like the idea of applying the value of his even numbered picks to the value of getting the breeders first pick or another female from a different clutch. You can easily come up with a price (allowing some range for quality) for all possible offspring and the other female snakes he is willing to sell at the time. Then after the picks are made he trades the value of his picks for an appropriately priced snake and he should probably be given the option to add cash to make the deal work if needed.

Or if the breeder wanted to roll the dice they could agree that if X female snake is produced he gets it and the breeder gets everything else no matter what.

There are a thousand different ways to arrange it. They just have to both agree that they are good with it.

Just suggesting ideas to avoid a situation where one or both is disappointed or mad. I hate the idea of just waiting until hatch day to think about how it will play out.

[hig]

you said its a friend, so ill just assume it is a friend. That settles all the nonsense about how much you know or dont know that person and how much diseases his collection may or may not carry. You are friends, so you know him, WE DO NOT. That settles it.

It is amazing how often someone is called a friend before a bad breeder loan. Then they are called acquaintances or friend of a friend or person I have to take legal action against when the deal goes bad. I was simply pointing out something to consider that was not mentioned previous

OP: It sounds like you are on the right track with the signed contract. Just remember a contract is only a piece of paper unless you have the means to enforce it. Here is one situation I found using a quick search: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=breeding+loan