Thermostat issue, help please

[kitedemon]

You may need to switch to interior probe placement it is far far more accurate under erratic conditions. If you do so there are a handful of steps to insure safety however. I know Aaron tested flexwatt to only hit 100ºF but I have a strip that got far far hotter (old style) that would be the first replacement to something that will not get over 100ºF like ultratherm. The next is the probe must be firmly fixed (regardless of placement) and the third is I would use the hydrofarm as a fail safe in addition to the relay setting on the herpstat (if it has them) being enabled. It then will not matter at all if there is hot or cool parts (ultratherms in my experience are super even) and it will account for air temps and any other variations.

[mackynz]

I'll feel the flexwatt when I get off work to see if I notice anything. I'll also check with the temp gun, it may not be accurate, bit it would still show a difference.

If I end up keeping the probe in the cage permanently how would you recommend securing it? Hot glue? And wouldn't I have to worry about pee soaked cardboard getting on it or no?

And kitedemon, in case you didn't see it above power usually sits bouncing between 25-27%

I'll update this again after putting the probe in to see what the temp reads.

[kitedemon]

No I missed that. I use hot melt to secure the probe I tug it to be sure it will not move I also secure the whole cable.

To do so safely the probe must not move. No pee/poo is not an issue the probe is fine.

The second issue is not to use a heat source that becomes very hot even wide open. I use 100ºF as a limit value I do not like seeing a max temp greater by more than a few degrees. I have flexwatt that never gets over 100º and some that gets far over it I would recommend a 'snake free' max temp test the flex it self should not be over 100ºF by much. This means even in the event of a failure the temps inside cannot exceed 100ºF.

The fail safe is the third step using your hydrofarm with its probe where you currently have the herpstats with the herpstat plugged into the hydrofarm and it set shut down before dangerous temps are reached, I again use 97-8º sometimes 100ºF at the flexwatt. This set point should be set so the interior temps cannot get beyond 95-6ºF.

The herpstat then needs to be set (if you have one that has over and under settings) so that it will shut down if the temp on the probe dips below a given point (I use 80ºF as my room can get very cool)

The argument many make is pee/poo on the probe will cause the t-stat to kick on max and cook the snake or the probe may be moved with the same result. This method I described the herpstat would have to fail at the same time AND the hydrofarm as well would have to fail at the same time the heater element shorted out. The chances outside a catastrophic event are so low to not matter. It is safe if you follow these guidelines, it would take something so large to cause all the safety issues to fail at once that there are much larger issues at stake. All the units all being under water or fire would damage all the heating appliances at once but the concern is bigger than holding correct temps. (if your house is on fire you are not likely to be worried that tsats have failed)

[mackynz]

Good news everyone! After putting the probe in the cage i was able to get the temps to where they should be furthermore the acurite thermometer only measures 1 degree under the thermostat. This has also further confused me.

As established earlier, when the probe was under the tank I had to have it set to 80F to get the 90F hot spot (as read by the Acurite) so logic dictates that they should not be reading almost the same... There is sorcery afoot!

As far as the Hydrofarm failsafe goes, I'm all for it but a bit confused. It was my understanding that the settings for each probe on the Herpstat were controlled separately. Could you describe exactly how it would be plugged in? I was thinking Flexwatt->Hydrofarm->Herpstat?

Again, thanks for all your help.

[The Serpent Merchant]

Good news everyone! After putting the probe in the cage i was able to get the temps to where they should be furthermore the acurite thermometer only measures 1 degree under the thermostat. This has also further confused me.

As established earlier, when the probe was under the tank I had to have it set to 80F to get the 90F hot spot (as read by the Acurite) so logic dictates that they should not be reading almost the same... There is sorcery afoot!

As far as the Hydrofarm failsafe goes, I'm all for it but a bit confused. It was my understanding that the settings for each probe on the Herpstat were controlled separately. Could you describe exactly how it would be plugged in? I was thinking Flexwatt->Hydrofarm->Herpstat?

Again, thanks for all your help.

Its the other way:

Flexwatt -> herpstat -> hydrofarm -> wall

This works best with single channel thermostats like the herpstat 1 or intro but it will work as well on a multichanel thermostat as well (like the herpstat 2 or 4) but whatever is plugged into the other channel(s) will be held hostage by the hydrofarm in the case of a failure.

This works because the hydrofarm is an on/off style thermostat. It allows power to get to the herpstat as long as the set temperature on the hydrofarm isn't breached. If you plugged the hydrofarm into the herpstat as soon as the herpstat reduced power to that channel the hydrofarm will go dead (or worse start acting erratically)

[don15681]

if the temps in the tub is that much higher than the herpstat setting, and the room temp isn't too high either you're way of measuring the temps is off. you kind of ruled that out with also using a temp gun and getting very close readings with both. then getting higher temps than what the thermostat is set at is most likely a bad reading on the probe. most likely how and where's it's mounted. mine is metal taped to the heat tape where the tub can no way knock it loose or off. if you check these, then you need to call spyder robotics

never place the probe in the tub. if the snake knocks it loose, you can get a hotspot that can burn your snake.

[mackynz]

never place the probe in the tub. if the snake knocks it loose, you can get a hotspot that can burn your snake.

Which is why I'll be securing the probe and cord in the way mentioned above, plus she has no real way of getting to it anyway.

[kitedemon]

never place the probe in the tub. if the snake knocks it loose, you can get a hotspot that can burn your snake.

If you use the method I described can you explain how this is going to happen?

The herpstat would have to fail, the secondary would have to fail, and the heat tape would have to short all at once. The chances of that are astronomically low. I cannot see anything short of the the home on fire that could manage that all at once.

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Hosted on Fotki

[don15681]

If you use the method I described can you explain how this is going to happen?

The herpstat would have to fail, the secondary would have to fail, and the heat tape would have to short all at once. The chances of that are astronomically low. I cannot see anything short of the the home on fire that could manage that all at once.

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Hosted on Fotki

first off that's an excellent drawing. this is in my near future plans, but my probes will be attached to the heat source as in the drawing. attached to the inside of the tubs might work for you. but I have close to 100 balls and I feed live. I never leave my room when I have rodents with my snakes. if a rodent is chewing on one of my snakes, that snake will be all over that tub. (never happen yet) i will hear it and can response fast on it. most hit the rodent right away. but I can't hear that rodent chewing on a probe wire. even tho the herpstat beeps when the probe is unplugged. should also beep with a broken wire. don't want to deal with that. I have my temps where they need to be with my probe on the outside attached to the flexwatt where it is also safe from the tub sliding in and out.

why would the tape have to short, if both probes get knocked off the heat tape is going to max out. even if there's nothing wrong with either thermostat.

[kitedemon]

The chance of both probe one outside one inside being knocked off (and the herpstat failing as it has the function of the low temp shut down) is crazy low. You have stated it should never be done, It is not for everyone, but when you get erratic temps this is almost always a fix (like the OP).

So you are saying a rat will chew the probe and the one placed on the heat source will fall off and the herpstat will fail and the heat source which under a maxed out test doesn't get hot enough to cause burns (unless you believe heat tape that caps at 100º -2 degrees to the tub so 98ºF) will burn snakes or will suddenly get much hotter than it has when plugged into the wall directly... I am sorry that is far fetched. Or did you not understand what conditions I have suggested to keep the a high level of safety?

Thank you, I try to keep drawings clear. It may not be obvious but a failsafe ALWAYS goes directly on the heat source and I believe that racks have a higher chance of pulling a probe loose than most other set ups, to my mind failsafes are highly advised (in truth, not optional IMO)

The better heat systems these days have limited max temp, most to 100ºF, recently in tests done by other members, have tested some flexwatt to hold 100ºF no more in a max power test. Personally I will not use under any conditions a heat source that will become hotter than 100ºF this means even in a full failure of everything you are still not hot enough to burn.