Question for all the "exotic" keepers on here....

[KMG]

I'm with you Wolfy but look at what some cities are trying to do with large fountain drinks and super sizing meals.

I don't think a class is going to solve anything. The government would not know what needs to be taught and like most government programs it would turn out to be a colossal waste of money. It would also just be another hoop for responsible owners to jump through while the irresponsible owners continue doing whatever they want to do without care. It's just like adding more gun control. You and I will follow the rules but the criminals will not.

I think much more responsibility should be taken by the buyer but sometimes the seller as well. I am not saying that sellers should require a test or home check but like the earlier example of just talking to a guy wanting a burm and finding out he knows nothing about them. That is a good decision not to make that sell but I'm sure we all know of a situation where the buyer was sold something they had no business owning, yet.

However much of the problem in that situation is the buyer. Before I buy anything I research it. I've been researching a pacman frog for two months just to make sure I'm ready for the commitment. Plenty of post here are asking advice about a possible addition to the collection, that's great. It makes me so angry when people get certain breeds of dogs because they are pretty or cute only to find out that it is a hyper breed that does not do well in an apartment so they put it on craigslist. I think that information is easily available today and there is no excuse for not being a knowledgeable buyer.

Just like the fountain drink I think government should leave us alone with the things they are currently trying to get done. I'm not fat, I workout, and I can't remember the last time I had a fountain drink but if tomorrow I want a 90oz Dr Pepper I think I should be able to buy one. I really doubt America started it's weight problem with a large drink. The reptile committee as a whole is a great place with great people. We prove that on this forum everyday with people helping other people. But with any large group we have a few that do dumb things that give the hobby a black eye and open the door for rules and regulations that hurt the whole group.

[sorraia]

I am not fully supportive of certain species being kept as pets, but IF someone is going to keep those animals as pets (for example.... a Siberian Tiger), I believe there should be some regulation ensuring the animal's enclosure is adequate to keep it confined and thus prevent escape. This is not only for the general public's safety, but for the animal's safety as well. There's more to it than that, but at the moment I can't put much more thought into it. I view "exotic" pets in a similar way to more mainstream pets. I am against breed specific legislation that regulates or bans specific breeds of dog, but I am for leash laws and ensuring adequate housing. I would really like to see similar laws for cats (i.e. keep them confined in some manner, it really is possible). I wish there was more that could be done about preventing people from releasing exotic animals, but that's a problem with the public not the animals in question, and banning those species will not stop the problem.

[Herpenthusiast3]

You live in Northern California - right?

Why can't you purchase a burm?

I can find a local pet store or ad for a burm but I can no longer find my dream burm and have him sent to me due to the fact that they can't sell over state lines anymore. :/ and the Burms being sold in my area seem to be harder and harder to find. :/ I do know where I can still purchase one but I don't have the resources to take care of one right now so I can't in good conscious purchase one. I'm just worried by the time I do Have the ability to take care of one I won't be able to get my hands on one.

[satomi325]

I can find a local pet store or ad for a burm but I can no longer find my dream burm and have him sent to me due to the fact that they can't sell over state lines anymore. :/ and the Burms being sold in my area seem to be harder and harder to find. :/ I do know where I can still purchase one but I don't have the resources to take care of one right now so I can't in good conscious purchase one. I'm just worried by the time I do Have the ability to take care of one I won't be able to get my hands on one.

Contact GBU Enterprises when you're ready. They're a reptile specialty shop in Lodi. If you can't go yourself, they can ship. But they breed burms. And you can always find some at reptile shows in the state.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[AngelOtter]

*keep in mind I have not read all the posts, it's like 5am and I'm too lazy to right now*

I think that if someone is stupid enough to have something like a tiger as a pet, and can't care for it, and gets killed, it's natural selection. Weeding out the stupid, I don't feel bad for those people at all. I do feel bad that the animal usually gets killed as well. May sound cold, but I'm in school essentially learning how to be a zookeeper, and honestly anyone with half a brain should know that those are not logical "safe" pets. People find ways to kill themselves everyday, you can't put restrictions on everything, and this is supposed to be a "free country". However this does not apply to endangered/restricted species, which is a different issue.

With reptiles I think there should be some more regulation in terms of animal cruelty, with laws to support it. I mean someone keeping a full grown savannah monitor in a 30g fish tank should be charged like someone keeping a golden retriever in a small cage would be. They are just not as strict as they should be with cruelty in regards to less "cute" and "popular" animals. I have seen many a reptile who's owner deserved to be in jail for the low quality of care they were providing. I hate the ignorance excuse, do your research before you get any animal. I'm sure no one would buy the "I didn't know it need fresh water and food, and a decent amount of room" excuse if it was a dog or cat, so why is it okay for a turtle or a lizard?

I am not okay with the government telling me I can't take my pets wherever I move. I don't have any large snakes or restricted species, but if I did want one, the government shouldn't be able to confine it to one state. Tag it, put a chip in it, make me register it, that's fine, but we should be able to cross state lines with our pets. You try telling someone with a dog that they can't take it with them when the move out of state! Why is a beloved snake any different? The isolated incidences in south Florida are just that-isolated. These laws are a massive over reaction to a local problem.

[OctagonGecko729]

I'm with you Wolfy but look at what some cities are trying to do with large fountain drinks and super sizing meals.

I don't think a class is going to solve anything. The government would not know what needs to be taught and like most government programs it would turn out to be a colossal waste of money. It would also just be another hoop for responsible owners to jump through while the irresponsible owners continue doing whatever they want to do without care. It's just like adding more gun control. You and I will follow the rules but the criminals will not.

I think much more responsibility should be taken by the buyer but sometimes the seller as well. I am not saying that sellers should require a test or home check but like the earlier example of just talking to a guy wanting a burm and finding out he knows nothing about them. That is a good decision not to make that sell but I'm sure we all know of a situation where the buyer was sold something they had no business owning, yet.

However much of the problem in that situation is the buyer. Before I buy anything I research it. I've been researching a pacman frog for two months just to make sure I'm ready for the commitment. Plenty of post here are asking advice about a possible addition to the collection, that's great. It makes me so angry when people get certain breeds of dogs because they are pretty or cute only to find out that it is a hyper breed that does not do well in an apartment so they put it on craigslist. I think that information is easily available today and there is no excuse for not being a knowledgeable buyer.

Just like the fountain drink I think government should leave us alone with the things they are currently trying to get done. I'm not fat, I workout, and I can't remember the last time I had a fountain drink but if tomorrow I want a 90oz Dr Pepper I think I should be able to buy one. I really doubt America started it's weight problem with a large drink. The reptile committee as a whole is a great place with great people. We prove that on this forum everyday with people helping other people. But with any large group we have a few that do dumb things that give the hobby a black eye and open the door for rules and regulations that hurt the whole group.

You definitely have some good points. The one thing I'd like to mention though is that the whole "who should be more responsible buyer/seller" thing. I'd say it has to fall on the seller, thats the only person you can control i.e. yourself. You really can't make people get educated or do research but you can refuse to sell to folks that do not show a level of competency needed for the species they are interested in.

[Skiploder]

I can purchase a retic right now, but I can't purchase a burm! Anyone else find this ridiculous!

I do know where I can still purchase one but I don't have the resources to take care of one right now so I can't in good conscious purchase one. I'm just worried by the time I do Have the ability to take care of one I won't be able to get my hands on one.

To answer your first question:

Yes, completely ridiculous.

[Annarose15]

You definitely have some good points. The one thing I'd like to mention though is that the whole "who should be more responsible buyer/seller" thing. I'd say it has to fall on the seller, thats the only person you can control i.e. yourself. You really can't make people get educated or do research but you can refuse to sell to folks that do not show a level of competency needed for the species they are interested in.

Yes, if someone is attempting to buy a full-grown retic from "you" and mentions how neat it will look in their garage in Miami in July, THEN you should refuse the sale. However, it is rarely this cut and dry on whether a person is or will be prepared to take care of an animal properly when it reaches its full potential, whether that be a large cat, giant constrictor, or tse-tse fly. A seller simply doesn't always spend that much time with a potential buyer, especially at a place like an expo.

Rather than blame sellers for not running full background checks and blood tests (hyperbole), we should INSIST that individuals be responsible for their own actions. Perhaps better funding (and pay) for animal control programs would help? I don't know, but it seems like many in this thread are focused on the danger that animals pose to humans (owner or otherwise), rather than the danger we pose to the animals we choose to posess. Licensing and registration all sound peachy for "risky" animals, but who determines what is risky? And what do these lovely programs cost? Too high, and people will choose to break the law; too low, and they don't present the barrier to entry that they are intended for. Short version - keep government legislation out of it and focus on education, education, education. You can't force someone to learn, but if they hear things enough times, more people will learn in spite of themselves.

[OctagonGecko729]

Yes, if someone is attempting to buy a full-grown retic from "you" and mentions how neat it will look in their garage in Miami in July, THEN you should refuse the sale. However, it is rarely this cut and dry on whether a person is or will be prepared to take care of an animal properly when it reaches its full potential, whether that be a large cat, giant constrictor, or tse-tse fly. A seller simply doesn't always spend that much time with a potential buyer, especially at a place like an expo.

Rather than blame sellers for not running full background checks and blood tests (hyperbole), we should INSIST that individuals be responsible for their own actions. Perhaps better funding (and pay) for animal control programs would help? I don't know, but it seems like many in this thread are focused on the danger that animals pose to humans (owner or otherwise), rather than the danger we pose to the animals we choose to posess. Licensing and registration all sound peachy for "risky" animals, but who determines what is risky? And what do these lovely programs cost? Too high, and people will choose to break the law; too low, and they don't present the barrier to entry that they are intended for. Short version - keep government legislation out of it and focus on education, education, education. You can't force someone to learn, but if they hear things enough times, more people will learn in spite of themselves.

I agree, it can be hard to determine who is fit for keeping and who isn't even when you meet them in person and have 20-30minutes to talk to them. As a seller though I do spend quite alot of time with people (unless I already know them) screening them before I sell them anything. The "Rather than blame sellers for not running full background checks and blood tests (hyperbole)" is actually a strawman. I do not hold sellers 100% responsible for an animal being mistreated but I do hold sellers (including myself) more accountable then the buyer. I agree though that education can go a long way in prevention of these types of things.

[KMG]

You definitely have some good points. The one thing I'd like to mention though is that the whole "who should be more responsible buyer/seller" thing. I'd say it has to fall on the seller, thats the only person you can control i.e. yourself. You really can't make people get educated or do research but you can refuse to sell to folks that do not show a level of competency needed for the species they are interested in.

I think both are correct. The difference is the roll we see ourself in. I am not yet a breeder so I am making myself responsible but it is currently as the buyer. One day I will be on the other side and I will do whatever I can to be as responsible as possible when selling any animal.

I can certainly see your point of view we are just viewing this from different perspectives.