Wild caught Spider?

[SteveySingle]

I'm at work...phsyically anyway..and I'm wondering if they're still catching Spiders in Africa and if these animals exhibit the wobble. I'm really just asking out of curiousity as to whether the sipder gene is genetic from the first spider/s that were shipped from africa in the beginning and it's developed into our hobby or if it originates even further back into the gene, before we started collecting and breeding them.

[treeboa]

I'm sure they still catch them, I just wonder what they do with them. I still see wild caught yellow bellies and ghosts on dealers lists every spring, but I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for any other morph. I really hope someone in the know responds. I, also, wonder about the wobble. I'm glad you posted this!

[Pythonfriend]

in Germany we have Stefan Broghammer, he has good connections to Africa.

based on vids and interviews with him, dinkers/morphs get sorted out, anything that looks different in any way. at http://www.ms-reptilien.de/ (Stefan Broghammers enterprise) He right now has 321 BPs for sale that are labeled "Question / Odd".

some of them: http://www.ms-reptilien.de/index.php..._15_16_774_457

these are not wild caught, but farm-bred, he doesnt sell wild caught. since all of them are with pictures, this will drive dinker-lovers totally nuts ^^

so what i can say is that out of africa, any "dinkers" or "oddballs" directly take a different path, with a higher price tag, and only a handful of people on the planet have access to that market segment. And if something REALLY new appears, you have to dig deep into your pockets to get it out of africa (like Brian paying 70000 dollars for the first unproven pinstripe in the early days). I think if potentially new lines of spider appear, they silently and directly go to a really big-time breeder. Stuff like this stays secret for a while, if you say "i got a dinker from africa that may be a wobble-free line of spider for 10k" you only hurt your reputation and make yourself a laughing stock if it turns out the next generation is just regular spiders with the typical wobble. But as soon as it would prove out, you would of course announce it and market the new line.


So there are limits on how much we can know about this. And the only people you can really ask are breeders that have world-first introductions of new morphs based on Africa-imports on their record, or that sell dinkers/oddballs from Africa. These are the only ones with access to these specific markets. We can only conjecture and make assumptions based on our limited knowledge, or has anyone ever been at the african breeding farms and searched through thousands of hatchlings for dinkers and asking for dinkers and taking 1000 BPs home? Paying a premium for the right to pick, and leaving the rest to importers or other big breeders that just order 1000 online? Only a handful of people have that insight.


EDIT: in conclusion i say let us conjecture for a while, so that we get our questions right, and then ask people like Brian Barczyk or Stefan Broghammer or the host of Herp Herp Hooray!, Jason Rossi, People that either have that knowledge and access, or that can ask people that have that knowledge and access on a live broadcast or in an interview.

[snakesRkewl]

I think only one spider has come from the wild and all spiders are descendants from that original one

[Dave Green]

I think only one spider has come from the wild and all spiders are descendants from that original one

That's my understanding as well.

[Marrissa]

I think the wobble is just tied to the spider gene. I've read about people selectively breeding only barely visible when excited wobblers to each other and still getting animals with a more noticeable wobble. It seems to me that it's just linked the gene and it's all about how the odds play out if you get a bad wobbler vs a barely visible one, or if it starts early or later, gets better or worse with age, etc. I would think that if it was just tied to that one founding spider having a wobble, that eventually it would be able to get bred out, so I think it just has to be tied to the gene.

And damn. Wish I had 70k to gamble on genes with... or just 70k in general.

[snakesRkewl]

I think the wobble is just tied to the spider gene. I've read about people selectively breeding only barely visible when excited wobblers to each other and still getting animals with a more noticeable wobble.

The bumblebee we breed has pretty much zero issues, she doesn't wobble, she doesn't corkscrew, she tilts her head a tiny bit now and then, otherwise nothing.
She has thrown babies that corkscrew ... it is what it is, you can't breed it out or it would have been long ago. I'm not even sure you can make it worse breeding two wobbling spiders to each other

[Pythonfriend]

The bumblebee we breed has pretty much zero issues, she doesn't wobble, she doesn't corkscrew, she tilts her head a tiny bit now and then, otherwise nothing.
She has thrown babies that corkscrew ... it is what it is, you can't breed it out or it would have been long ago. I'm not even sure you can make it worse breeding two wobbling spiders to each other

its impossible to make it worse by breeding two spiders together, living offspring if you breed spider to spider will be 33% normals and 66% spiders. 66% Heterozygous spiders. What is not known is if the homozygous spiders die so super-early that they get resorbed, maybe even resorbed and then replaced, or if they turn to slugs. So, when people say the homozygous is "mysteriously absent", it means exactly what it says. We dont know when it dies, i would say somewhere between the first cell division and very early in the egg. Thats something to prove out, but breeders are reluctant to publish slug statistics on their clutches.

Pinstripes on the other hand, im more or less sure super pinstripes exist, but if they do it is the FIRST EVER TRULY DOMINANT GENE in the ball-python world. Meaning the homozygous version is indistinguishable from the regular heterozygous pinstripe. The exact opposite of albino, where the hets are indistinguishable from normals. Unfortunately its incredibly difficult to prove out. You breed a pinstripe (33% possible super pinstripe) to a pinstripe, and UNLESS you get a non-pinstripe baby, nothing is proven. It really gets into statistics then.

But i have to say: Tilting the head without hitting an obstacle or placing the head against an obstacle is not normal for a ball python, its the first sign of wobble, the mildest visible case.

[OhhWatALoser]

Pinstripes on the other hand, im more or less sure super pinstripes exist, but if they do it is the FIRST EVER TRULY DOMINANT GENE in the ball-python world. Meaning the homozygous version is indistinguishable from the regular heterozygous pinstripe. The exact opposite of albino, where the hets are indistinguishable from normals. Unfortunately its incredibly difficult to prove out. You breed a pinstripe (33% possible super pinstripe) to a pinstripe, and UNLESS you get a non-pinstripe baby, nothing is proven. It really gets into statistics then.

There are 3 dominant genes, Pinstripe is already proven by bhb with statistics, the original congo was homozygous, and ralph produced a few super daddy genes already.

Every spider came from the first one imported by NERD. While I'm sure you can selectively breed a smaller wobble or an apparent no wobble, whether it be effected by an epigenetic effect or other genes completely (though I haven't heard about anyone doing it consistently yet). I think it's pretty set in stone, all spiders have the potential to wobble and that can't change.

[snakesRkewl]

its impossible to make it worse by breeding two spiders together, living offspring if you breed spider to spider will be 33% normals and 66% spiders. 66% Heterozygous spiders. What is not known is if the homozygous spiders die so super-early that they get resorbed, maybe even resorbed and then replaced, or if they turn to slugs. So, when people say the homozygous is "mysteriously absent", it means exactly what it says. We dont know when it dies, i would say somewhere between the first cell division and very early in the egg. Thats something to prove out, but breeders are reluctant to publish slug statistics on their clutches.

Pinstripes on the other hand, im more or less sure super pinstripes exist, but if they do it is the FIRST EVER TRULY DOMINANT GENE in the ball-python world. Meaning the homozygous version is indistinguishable from the regular heterozygous pinstripe. The exact opposite of albino, where the hets are indistinguishable from normals. Unfortunately its incredibly difficult to prove out. You breed a pinstripe (33% possible super pinstripe) to a pinstripe, and UNLESS you get a non-pinstripe baby, nothing is proven. It really gets into statistics then.

Interesting, lol.

Possible pinstripe super, yeah, heard that one before.
No spider super but there's a pinstripe super, yep, heard that one before.

Spider X spider makes 33% normals, 66% spiders. 66% heterozygous spiders

I'm confused, and because it's ALL speculation with no facts on the table, it will never end ...

Oh, and het albino's are pretty dang visual, as are most "so called" recessive traits