Cage Heating (Radiant Panel vs Belly Heat)

[norwegn113]

I never said you could not, but you constantly have given advise based on myths. I have been tinkering in an empty enclosure for over a year now. I have been calibrating and woking with Radiant IR driers for just over 19 years. Add two years of using them with arboreal animals. I have a very good understanding of what they do and how they do it. I have never said your set ups don't work just to stop using myths to sell the idea of them they can stand on their own merits. Please keep in mind you have suggested using a RHP in an 11 inch enclosure, you suggest pro panels I understand this is inside their min recommended distance.


Over a grab bag of exchanges you have said all kinds of things.

Checking ambient temps with an IR gun. I pointed out if true you would only read the air in the body of the gun (objects not air...)
•Have you decided to use an accurate probed one ? Have you checked a shaded air temp yet placing a probe under a RHP only checks the surface of the probe not the air.•

You said RHP are very efficient, more so than UTH. I figure more cost, more power, and far more heat loss means less efficiency.

You said that plastic was dangerous inside an enclosure, and still you have plastic panels over wood, plastic RHPs. I don't think you believe your enclosures are dangerous and as glass reinforced polyester melts at lower temps than PVC, PVC is equally safe or safer as it is very difficult to actually burn. Can we assume that if the inside of the enclosure gets to 200ºC the snake will be cooked before the plastic melts.

You feel that black objects do not get hotter than white objects under radiant heat (the sun) . You felt this is a laughable idea.

You have also ignored the vertical gradient issues and suggested that 90º floor temps while ignoring the top of the hide was fine. I will not ever suggest subjecting a snake to temps over 94º ever is a good idea and the top of the hide is included.

My beef is simple give advise based on truth, RHPs do not directly heat air. They cost more than UTH. They may or may not require supplement heat to raise ambient air temps. There is a min set up distance some suppliers say upwards of 22 inches from face to floor. Probe placement can be tricky finding a spot that it cannot become dislodged, blocked by objects, or snakes. You recommend things repeatedly based on things that are not true. RHP do not belong in low enclosures less than 18 inches IMO I can accept variation but really not 12 not even mentioning 11 like you have just recommended in contradiction to one of your earlier posts. You claim 'keep egos out' then stop trying to undermine my points by hypocritical statements. Contradicting yourself to make a 'fool of me' (or words to that effect, that you said, and then started in on the plastic in enclosure can melt and cause burns, is that your position or is plastic safe again? Or perhaps polyester is not, in your mind, plastic?)

RHP are great when you understand how they work, they are not the fix every situation, and use them in every enclosure solution, you always make them out to be. They have up sides and down sides like everything else. Sometimes the inexpensive simple solution works better do not take buyers remorse out on me.

Kite, you are sick in the head and need to seek serious medical attention! You seem to want to make things up that people have not said or you misunderstood them. Anyone that have been through the third grade knows that black objects heat up more than white ones. Even in this post I have backed you that uth are more efficient but you want to put words in my mouth saying I said differently. I have never said rhp were the all size fits all. All I have ever backed is that they do work in my set ups under the conditions in MY CAGES. I have always stood true to the fact they dont raise ambiant temps alone, they do heat objects which in turn heat the surrounding air. I have taken every reading in my cages that need to be taken. I used an ir gun to measure surface temps at all levels (vertical gradient) the temps of all objects, I also used a probed accurite thermometer to measuse air temps (even and especially in shaded areas such as the insides of hides and all is well. Fyi I do use pro heat (pro products) and their framework is made of metal not plastic. Here is the deal...im tired of the constant harassment by you and discrediting me and everything I say publically. NONE of us hold degrees on herpetology so you have no right chasing off other members of this site. We are all entitled to our opinions because in the end that is all they are. It is up to the op to do their homework and choose the option that best fits their needs. In the future if you continue to harass me or other members here or you continue to hijack posts you will be reported to the moderators of this site. State your case and stop bullying others. PERIOD!!!!

[KMG]

Norwegn113,

I have gone back and looked at the post between you and Kitedemon over the post you have made on different threads. It seems to me that the problem is you are failing to explain yourself fully and it leads to misunderstood info. Like the post where you suggested to place tile in a cage floor with a uth. I understood it like Kite seemed too. But later when you posted more information and a pic it was clear what you were trying to say.

I don't know you or kitedemon but I think you are going alittle overboard with your responses to him. I Have never seen him give bad information or constantly try to undermine someone elses. I can see from your custom cages you have skill and they look great. I don't think you are meaning to give to little information but I think that's the problem between yall.

I always try to fully explain my setup when needed so the op will know what I have and how it works for me and then judge for themselves if my info is valuable for them in their situation. Like the earlier post I made and you agreed with. I see this as a trend with you post. I Think that if you took alittle more time to explain your setup and try to fully explain your thoughts you two would not be having issues.

Another thing I think you should think of is what kind of advise your giving and who to. Your custom cages are very nice and I know you said you build them professionally but just like you commented that were not herpetologist I seriously doubt you have a degree in cage building. You have alot of skills, alot more than probably most of the members here. So when you are giving advice that involves what most would consider advanced cage building it may not be possible for them to complete the same task to the quality you can and it may lead to them creating an unsafe cage. I Would hate to give advice that was to advanced for a member and learn it lead to an injury of their animals.

I think you should relax. When you make a post just explain the best you can with to many details. Just because your post is clear to you does not mean it will be the received the same as you understands it. It came from your mind so you fully understand what you meant when others don't. Read and re-read your post with the mindset of the op to make sure the other side will understand what you post correctly.

I'm think pvc is a better choice than wood for most people. You know that wood can be harder to care for than pvc. It may insulate better but it is also absorbent and can mold fairly easy when producing the climate we do for or reptiles. Pvc is easy to clea, will not mold and still insulates fairly well. I think for most keepers here its absolutely the best choice for most members. Have have no problem with your selection to use wood as I'm sure you are doing it correctly and successfully. I Just ask that you remember to make the disclaimer that you do use wood and your advise for a pvc user may not be completely applied to a pvc cage.

I also hope that you realize that the mods are constantly logged on and participating in the forum. I'm sure that they have seen yalls post and if they thought kitedemon was out of line would have already handed out an infraction. You seem to be the hostel one and making threats will not get you anywhere.

[norwegn113]

KMG, you are absolutely correct with your posts. I guess it could be said that I sometimes dont explain myself correctly or that I dont go into the amount of details I should. you are correct by stating that the ideas I have are in my head and although I may see them clearly, others can not see into my head.I do apologize to you and all the members here about my comment about being herpetologists. It was in no way meant to be an insult but to merely point out that to some degree we are all still learning here including myself, which I will also say that at no point did I ever say that I was an expert or the authority on cage building. Just because it is how I pay my bills does not make me an expert. In fact for 20 years I used to build commercial buildings as a union carpenter until the economy collapsed and I lost my home and everything I owned (literally) so building cages was the only way I could think of to feed my family.the entire point of this site is to better the health of our animals , so that they can have the best environments possible. If indeed I am giving out bad advice than I think it is in everyones best interest that I no longer participate in giving advice. I was only trying to offer just another way to look at things sorry for all the drama ...Jeff.

[Lesserlove]

..... So just to make this clear for myself, is there anyway for the ultratherm to burn my snake in a pvc cage? Or is it safe to heat to 89-90 as a place for her belly to sit?

[norwegn113]

..... So just to make this clear for myself, is there anyway for the ultratherm to burn my snake in a pvc cage? Or is it safe to heat to 89-90 as a place for her belly to sit?

It is perfectly safe to use the set up you are talking about but please make sure to use a good quality thermostat to plug it into. Sorry to make this thread confusing for you and others.

[KMG]

KMG, you are absolutely correct with your posts. I guess it could be said that I sometimes dont explain myself correctly or that I dont go into the amount of details I should. you are correct by stating that the ideas I have are in my head and although I may see them clearly, others can not see into my head.I do apologize to you and all the members here about my comment about being herpetologists. It was in no way meant to be an insult but to merely point out that to some degree we are all still learning here including myself, which I will also say that at no point did I ever say that I was an expert or the authority on cage building. Just because it is how I pay my bills does not make me an expert. In fact for 20 years I used to build commercial buildings as a union carpenter until the economy collapsed and I lost my home and everything I owned (literally) so building cages was the only way I could think of to feed my family.the entire point of this site is to better the health of our animals , so that they can have the best environments possible. If indeed I am giving out bad advice than I think it is in everyones best interest that I no longer participate in giving advice. I was only trying to offer just another way to look at things sorry for all the drama ...Jeff.

Don't stop giving advice just add the needed details to get your complete point across.

Im sorry to hear about your job, that truly sucks. Atleast you have some awesome skills to fall back on. I wish I could make a display like you did. It really does look awesome.

Thanks for having a good attitude and listening to my opinion.