Quarantine

[Skiploder]

I quarantine new arrivals for 12 months. That's right, a full year. The longest incubation period I have heard of for a virus in a ball python is 10 months. I'm not into taking risks. 90 days is not long enough.

It hurts my soul to agree with Donna on anything - but she's right.

90 days isn't enough time.

[OsirisRa32]

The medical and scientific purposes behind quarantine is to isolate individuals you either A) known to have been exposed to diseases, parasites or pathogens, and B) to isolate individuals THOUGHT to have been exposed to pathogens, parasites, or diseases.

In Public Health we are taught that while quarantine originally started in the 1400's in plague ridden Italy and Europe as being 40 days in duration (from the Italian words quaranta giorni) the appropriate length of duration of quarantine is as long as a full cycle of disease lasts or until the last case of disease either results in death of the organism or it successfully beating the disease. I fail to see how a year long quarantine duration is appropriate in regards to the diseases and parasites/pathogens that most of us here keep speaking about.

As I have asked before, at least for me personally, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE whatever information on this 10 month long incubation time disease that has been previously mentioned.

The consensus, at least to me, is that the vast majority of people on here seem to QT for somewhere between 60 to 120 days.

[OsirisRa32]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19261506


A BBC brief on the original doctors/scientists looking at IBD and Paramyxoviruses.....specifically states that these diseases are so hot that once infected, the snakes die within weeks.

For any of you further interested the new article sites some newer research being done and there is a link to the article and journal in which it was published....

"Identification, Characterization, and In Vitro Culture of Highly Divergent Arenaviruses from Boa Constrictors and Annulated Tree Boas: Candidate Etiological Agents for Snake Inclusion Body Disease"

[Skiploder]

The medical and scientific purposes behind quarantine is to isolate individuals you either A) known to have been exposed to diseases, parasites or pathogens, and B) to isolate individuals THOUGHT to have been exposed to pathogens, parasites, or diseases.

In Public Health we are taught that while quarantine originally started in the 1400's in plague ridden Italy and Europe as being 40 days in duration (from the Italian words quaranta giorni) the appropriate length of duration of quarantine is as long as a full cycle of disease lasts or until the last case of disease either results in death of the organism or it successfully beating the disease. I fail to see how a year long quarantine duration is appropriate in regards to the diseases and parasites/pathogens that most of us here keep speaking about.

As I have asked before, at least for me personally, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE whatever information on this 10 month long incubation time disease that has been previously mentioned.

The consensus, at least to me, is that the vast majority of people on here seem to QT for somewhere between 60 to 120 days.

(insert raspberry sound here)

Two of the most dreaded ophidian viruses can remain dormant (read "asymptomatic") for an as of yet unknown period of time. Those two heavy hitters would be OPMV and IBD - both of which do not have a fool proof screening test and both which have been proven to be able to be carried asymptomatically by snakes for well over 10 months.

...and that's not to mention other viruses like adenoviridae.

The vast majority of people here don't even know what proper QT protocols are. Info on proper QT procedures should not be gleaned by canvassing popular opinions on a snake forum. All new arrivals should be quarantined regardless of the source. Too much flipping and importing animals and to many people who DON'T follow QT to take a chance with your collection.

[Skiploder]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19261506


A BBC brief on the original doctors/scientists looking at IBD and Paramyxoviruses.....specifically states that these diseases are so hot that once infected, the snakes die within weeks.

For any of you further interested the new article sites some newer research being done and there is a link to the article and journal in which it was published....

"Identification, Characterization, and In Vitro Culture of Highly Divergent Arenaviruses from Boa Constrictors and Annulated Tree Boas: Candidate Etiological Agents for Snake Inclusion Body Disease"

Too members on this forum have had correspondence with Dr. Jacobson (and shared the same on this forum) directly and have read enough literature on IBD to know that the leading researchers on this disease state that snakes can be asymptomatic carriers for an indefinite period of time. The members of this forum are pretty well boned up on IBD - please don't confuse people new to hobby by making them think that IBD and OPMV always strike fast and kill fast. It is simply and blatantly false......and it adds to the misinformation that surrounds these diseases.

OPMV has similar characteristics. Despite what the BBC gloss piece states, it is commonly known in this hobby that animals exposed to OPMV can be considered asymptomatic carriers for up to 24 months.

[kitedemon]

I have corresponded with Dr. Jacobson re IBD on 4 occasions his research is leading the field although primarily in boas. I also have seen a documented real case in person of IBD from a local collection. Very luckily the person who had the snake (it came from Ottawa) practices very very very careful quarantine. IBD transmission vector is unknown making it very hard to know how to carry on with quarantine. The test as I understand has a high accuracy rate in the 90% or better I believe. It is costly, the test is 100$ plus the shipping and the preparation, it should be sent to Dr. Jacobson in the U of Florida. It is because of the unknown factors i mention it. If it is unknown how it is spread there is no reasonable way to know if any breeder has had contact with it. Ophidian Paramyxovirus I know little about so I am unable to make intelligent comments upon it.

I can't say how much the OPs vet charges for tests but MY vet charges about 25-35$ for a fecal exam and 40-55$ for a blood screen. Not unreasonable. I would as I originally stated that i would not even give thought to the fecal. I run fecals every year on all the snakes I own. With the high rate I found of parasites in rats raised for food and the fact that few freezers are set to -7ºC and often prey items are used inside 30 days even frozen thawed is not free of that chance.

The blood screen is a good idea period, it offers valuable information about the health and a baseline to track changes and is an asset in future treatments.


IBD testing well if there is or has been any contact with a boa or any new animal entered into the collection (of the breeder) in 2 years then it might be something to be considered. Is it likely to find anything no unlikely. I equate it to having an AIDS testing between partners there is no reason why i would suspect anything but it starts off a new relationship with a clean slate so to speak.

I believe Dr. Rita Chang is in charge of running the blood tests.

http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/files/201...D2012-Rita.pdf

Oh, it looks like Dr. Jacobsons lab also runs testing on Ophidian Paramyxovirus as well.

[OsirisRa32]

Too members on this forum have had correspondence with Dr. Jacobson (and shared the same on this forum) directly and have read enough literature on IBD to know that the leading researchers on this disease state that snakes can be asymptomatic carriers for an indefinite period of time. The members of this forum are pretty well boned up on IBD - please don't confuse people new to hobby by making them think that IBD and OPMV always strike fast and kill fast. It is simply and blatantly false......and it adds to the misinformation that surrounds these diseases.

OPMV has similar characteristics. Despite what the BBC gloss piece states, it is commonly known in this hobby that animals exposed to OPMV can be considered asymptomatic carriers for up to 24 months.

Your assuming things on my part that aren't there....I was simply trying to add to the discussion and bring whatever knowledge I personally have to it as well. I never once stated that it ALWAYS kills fast, I am not purposefully attempting to confuse people. I thought the BBC article was brief but interesting piece...my specific point in linking that bbc article was that it contained a direct link to a peer reviewed journal article...as I stated, that contained an original research piece on the issues being discussed, ie IBD and paramyxovirus.

The point of forums are for information sharing and discussion if I am not mistaken? instead of reading into and assuming things from my statements that are not true nor accurate, if you have some links to these sources you speak about I, personally, would love to have useful and correct information shared with me.

I may not have a degree in herpetology but I do bring to the table 3 degrees in public health, biology and infectious disease (human focused not reptilian by any means)....I am a scientist by trade and by nature, and am always trying to further educate myself....like I have stated and asked for previously if you have accurate and legitimate sources for research and peer reviewed journal articles...if you don't mind sharing I would very much appreciate it.

- - - Updated - - -

I have corresponded with Dr. Jacobson re IBD on 4 occasions his research is leading the field although primarily in boas. I also have seen a documented real case in person of IBD from a local collection. Very luckily the person who had the snake (it came from Ottawa) practices very very very careful quarantine. IBD transmission vector is unknown making it very hard to know how to carry on with quarantine. The test as I understand has a high accuracy rate in the 90% or better I believe. It is costly, the test is 100$ plus the shipping and the preparation, it should be sent to Dr. Jacobson in the U of Florida. It is because of the unknown factors i mention it. If it is unknown how it is spread there is no reasonable way to know if any breeder has had contact with it. Ophidian Paramyxovirus I know little about so I am unable to make intelligent comments upon it.

I can't say how much the OPs vet charges for tests but MY vet charges about 25-35$ for a fecal exam and 40-55$ for a blood screen. Not unreasonable. I would as I originally stated that i would not even give thought to the fecal. I run fecals every year on all the snakes I own. With the high rate I found of parasites in rats raised for food and the fact that few freezers are set to -7ºC and often prey items are used inside 30 days even frozen thawed is not free of that chance.

The blood screen is a good idea period, it offers valuable information about the health and a baseline to track changes and is an asset in future treatments.


IBD testing well if there is or has been any contact with a boa or any new animal entered into the collection (of the breeder) in 2 years then it might be something to be considered. Is it likely to find anything no unlikely. I equate it to having an AIDS testing between partners there is no reason why i would suspect anything but it starts off a new relationship with a clean slate so to speak.

I believe Dr. Rita Chang is in charge of running the blood tests.

http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/files/201...D2012-Rita.pdf

Oh, it looks like Dr. Jacobsons lab also runs testing on Ophidian Paramyxovirus as well.

Hey sent you a message

[Skiploder]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19261506


A BBC brief on the original doctors/scientists looking at IBD and Paramyxoviruses.....specifically states that these diseases are so hot that once infected, the snakes die within weeks.

Your assuming things on my part that aren't there....I was simply trying to add to the discussion and bring whatever knowledge I personally have to it as well. I never once stated that it ALWAYS kills fast, I am not purposefully attempting to confuse people. I thought the BBC article was brief but interesting piece...my specific point in linking that bbc article was that it contained a direct link to a peer reviewed journal article...as I stated, that contained an original research piece on the issues being discussed, ie IBD and paramyxovirus.

The point of forums are for information sharing and discussion if I am not mistaken? instead of reading into and assuming things from my statements that are not true nor accurate, if you have some links to these sources you speak about I, personally, would love to have useful and correct information shared with me.

I may not have a degree in herpetology but I do bring to the table 3 degrees in public health, biology and infectious disease (human focused not reptilian by any means)....I am a scientist by trade and by nature, and am always trying to further educate myself....like I have stated and asked for previously if you have accurate and legitimate sources for research and peer reviewed journal articles...if you don't mind sharing I would very much appreciate it.

- - - Updated - - -

See the bolded part. that's your quote, I ASSumed nothing.

A week ago you were canvassing members on this forum with regards to the proper QT length:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...81#post1972781

Two people gave you their opinions - that qualifies as the "vast majority"?

Earlier in this thread you stated that "the overall prevalence rates of IBD are incredibly low."

We've had Dr. Jacobson debunk that myth also. Studies have confirmed that asymptomatic carrier rates in boas can be as high as 33% of the captive population. Dr. Jacobson has even stated that supposedly clean "control" animals have come in as asymptomatic carriers.

Earlier in this thread you also stated:

".....first of all many of the viruses that we all seem to be freaked out about move more quickly in pythons than boas"

Not so. Dr. Jacobson himself baldly stated that no one knows how long it can remain dormant in pythons. OPMV affects everything and againl some snakes can go asymptomatic for well over 10 months. Aussie keepers who deal with more OPMV than us report times approaching two years.

I have a whole library of Jstor and other snake health and behavior articles. From time to time I email them to members here. With your three medical degrees you should be more than capable of finding the same information.

With IBD and OPMV, you can often read conflicting literature on it, especially if you read aggregate studies that summarize other earlier studies, all you will do is parrot old or bad information.

Many of the earliest IBD cases, the ones that seemingly ravaged whole collections in a matter of week (the cases that so much of the hookum we once believed) were never proven conclusively to be IBD. These cases made the round on Anapsid and other forums. Some even later proved to be OPMV or extremely nasty bacterial diseases.

For what it's worth I have a degree in Proctology with my overall area of expertise being the Bristol Stool chart. I also have a degree in Arm Pit Farting and a minor in Proper Wiping Techniques.

[Sita]

As far as I know, a fecal isn't expensive...

How much are we talking about? I can't afford much.

At my clinic we charge $15 for a fecal, and we do both a floatation and smear, but if parasites are found, we have to do an exam before prescribing medication. Exam fee I think is about $50 for exotics. Ideally, the best stool sample is directly out of the snake at the visit, but a very fresh one (as in, checked within a couple hours after they poo) is ok too.

[Pennstater6]

At my clinic we charge $15 for a fecal, and we do both a floatation and smear, but if parasites are found, we have to do an exam before prescribing medication. Exam fee I think is about $50 for exotics. Ideally, the best stool sample is directly out of the snake at the visit, but a very fresh one (as in, checked within a couple hours after they poo) is ok too.

I'll have to look into it. The closest herp vet is 30 mins away so not too far. I'm guessing you put the snake on paper towel and then put the poo in a cup provided by the vet?