Oil heater=crazy power bill!

[OhhWatALoser]

So a 40w appliance uses less power than a 12w to 16w light?

I pay very high power rates and the light cost 6-8$ a year. If a RHP is only on 6 hours a day it would cost just short of 14$ a year more than twice as much now if we were talking a 40w light it would be different. Even if it is dimmed and fully regulated that is 25% power on the RHP most of the time.

Lets not make things up shall we?

at fullpower it is 40 watts, which would undoubtedly cook my snakes, it is only a fraction of that when maintaining temperature, this is basic, lights make light and heat, heating panel just makes heat, whats more efficient heating wise? If you want the direct relation it is 1 watt = 1 joule/sec. There is a reason i can unscrew a 13 watt cfl bulb or even a 80 watt HO florescent bulb with bare hands and not burn myself, but a 5 watt microwave incandescence bulb would burn my fingers. The less heat a bulb produces per watt, the more light it produces per watt. It's what makes LED so efficient for lighting, but not for heat, just about anything else would produce more heat with the same power.

Lets not make things up shall we?

[kitedemon]

We are speaking of flexwatt in a box.

You are speaking of light and heat like they are different. The only difference is pythons see IR and we do not.

Granted that rarely a 40w heater runs at full power that is why I calculated it at 25% power. Even at 25% for half the day it is the same cost and that is not accurate as my lights are on only 12 hours a day for 3 months in reality it would be closer to 4$ a year that same as a RHP running 20% for 8 hours which is likely close to reality. The difference in start up cost is 75$ (since everything else I have given is canadian prices $110 for an RHP delivered in Canada and the FL light tube and fixture 30$ plus a pack of five tubes 15$ is 45$) even if you only have the RHP at 10% power output for only 8 hours every 24 it would take 33 years to save enough to cover the RHP. If we are talking cost lights are cheaper. max power clearly goes to the RHP but who need 190º inside the enclosure?

The other issue that has been ignored, RHP (Radiant Heat Panels) are Radiant heat not convection heat. By definition do not heat the air and still do not do the same thing as lights so yes they can replace UTH systems they still do not effect ambient air temps enough to replace a oil heater. How does that make them more efficient if you still need the oil heater then is the initial issue?

[OhhWatALoser]

light and heat are different, light travels faster and farther through air. more energy will stay in the cage as heat vs as light if you have any kind of screen or window. As for how much my rhp are pulling, I don't have anything that can measure the amperage of something that small. My only meter that can do that starts at 1 amp and even at 100% power the rhp would only draw a 1/3 amp, so I cant get us some real numbers. The RHP is going to be more efficient by design tho. They do heat the air indirectly, heat the ground the ground heats the air, energy is still staying in the cage, no other heat sources needed, perfect heat gradient, no oil heater needed. Its why people get them. I can see how canada prices are very different though. I was just referring to saving on the electric bill. doubling the bill is a big jump, spending a few bucks to save some more later didn't seem unreasonable.

Something I want to ask though, can the light even do the job? if it can great, but you said with insulation you get 10-15 degrees above room temp, the op said his room may drop below 70. while I realize there are many ways to care for ball pythons, the caresheet recommends 90 degree hot spot, which might be unobtainable. also what would his temps be when the lights turn off? i know people who keep their bp's at a constant 80 with no heat gradient, but dropping the temps every night, are we getting into dangerous temps now? I don't know personally, but just questions that come to mind with his situation.

[BrianB801]

You might have to switch to a type of cage that isn't dependent on room temps. I really like by PVC enclosures from Animal Plastics because They can be easily maintained even when the room temperature drops below 70 degrees.

Heating a 4 x 2 x 1 foot cage takes a lot less power than heating an entire room.

Did u make this setup??

[WmHrbst]

Some oil heaters have multiple settings, 500 w, 1000 w, and 1500 w, I keep mine on 500 in a 11x11 room and it's keeps it at 80 no problem. My electric bill goes up about $15-$20 when I use the oil heater.

[joefer13]

Ok guys with the oil heater I keep my hotspot and cool spot and temp gradient to specs. Because of the PVC enclosure I am able to keep them pretty constant as long as it wasn't an overly warm day "max cool side 83" maybe I need to monkey with my settings on the oil heater or look into that RHP. Problem being with either those or the lights is I won't see the results of my work until the end of the month plus I wouldn't put it past the power company to jack the rates up. North Carolina here...they make their own rules on a lot of things

[kitedemon]

Deep red and heat travel about the same but that is splitting hairs. No lights provide only ambients you still need an UTH. My room is cool by that I mean below what is thought to be normal or 68ºF 20ºC I have greatly variable room temps winter summer and during the day and night. The average winter is 65 maybe and it does drop to 60 sometimes. I get cool. Heating the room is simply not an option they only way to really have control (for me) is to use the two oil heaters I own set one to max (1200w) run it full on all the time and use the 2400w to hold 80º it runs 60% most of the time. The cost is crazy.

I use two RHPs (40w and 80w) the 40w is in a 24x24x12 PVCx enclosure originally my test enclosure (quarantine) it is currently occupied. (no experimenting with it currently) It is running a RHP as a hot spot a UTH as a cool surface (and unused warm surface UTH as well) and the lights. With the lights off the ambient are temps drop to 2-4ºF over the room temps (this morning 67ºF) This is the normal for the RHP I have never had more than 4ºF over the ambient air temps. I am using paper substrate and light plastic bowls there is nothing to generate thermal mass and conduct to the enclosure. I believe you might get 5-6º perhaps but clearly that is far to little in my case. The lights add enough that even with out the RHP it will hold 75º on the coolest night I have that is JUST lights (experiments on empty of 9 months to find the most cost effective efficient system.)

I freely admit RHP generate some ambients and for that matter UTH do as well just not near enough on their own. The only way is to add heavy objects to the enclosure that NOBODY speaks of when they suggest RHPs can control ambients air temps. Most try to tell people they heat air directly which if it were true would make them very very very dangerous. Mine runs a surface temp of 100-115º all the time if that were heating air too the enclosure would be far to high ambient temps with cold surface temps. It is difficult when people whom have nice toasty spaces say how to manage ambient temps when they have little experience with such an issue. I agree RHP are more efficient heaters but the available power is not needed it is used at or below 20% power all the time the cost savings is maybe a few bucks a year at best it is hard to pay for given start up costs unless you need the full power (like my arboreal set up I use much more power to generate a vertical gradient) It is like having a 22000 CFM fan in a living room that is only 100 sq feet it can never be run beyond the lowest setting. Having the ability to heat an enclosure to 150º is needed why? I believe if the tstat fails and everything goes haywire (power surge for example take out t-stat and failsafe) the final line of defence is the heater not producing excessively high temps. The majority of my enclosures simply can never get hotter than 100ºF certainly too hot but not enough to kill the animals they hold. I am slowly converting all to low wattage heaters this will include the Q enclosure with the RHP.

I have been a bit short lately currently negotiating (union) and being told I am lying every day and placing documents on the table supporting what was said then being told I didn't understand what the lawyer said and inferred I must be dumb then playing back the recorded statement and watching the back peddling again everyday has made me temperamental. I do apologize for being short tempered.

[joefer13]

Hey kitedemon any chance you could please post some pictures of what you fluorescent led setup looks like? And does any one have suggestions on where to get the appropriate fluorescent kit and led set up supplies that I can make? I'm guessing more red LEDs are better for this mix?

[kitedemon]

Sure I am at work until what seems like forever... I'll get some when I get home (if I get home... ) I have this one of the led on and IR gun.

I would suggest Blue LED pythons unlike many reptiles hunt by infrared they are highly adapted to the red end of the spectrum. Both optically and heat pits I know they adapt and also blue LED still emit IR (heat) but running an IR light (near we see as dark red and far we don't see at all but pythons do) just seems to me to foul this ability. The same reason why UV (deep blues) are not always suggested for reptiles as many species track UV. Pythons, royals especially, it is doubtful they have this ability.

Hosted on Fotki

[OhhWatALoser]

I freely admit RHP generate some ambients and for that matter UTH do as well just not near enough on their own. The only way is to add heavy objects to the enclosure that NOBODY speaks of when they suggest RHPs can control ambients air temps.

There is a lot of truth to that. My substrate is cypress mulch, which heats up from the rhp and then in turn heats the air. Sometime I forget not everyone uses the same substrate. As for the reason they are 40 watts, I do agree it is way overkill. I do not know for sure, but i do believe, that the reason they are so high of wattage is just because the heating elements they use are standard and when they build a panel of "this" size, that's the wattage you get. Its more the surface area I need, doing its job so I have the target heat gradient, if they made the panel smaller it would be colder on the cold side, regardless of it being the same wattage or not. I just run a rhp with nothing else and it works for me. but my room doesn't get nearly as cold as yours does, 70 is about as low as mine gets. I have no doubts I would have to make changes if I was getting into the 60's. Also I don't see anything that need apologizing, give em hell!