Quote Originally Posted by Skiploder View Post
I find it interesting that - to use the term of a long departed member on BP-Net whom I enjoyed immensely - the current dogma decrees that we can bash glass tanks and setups that are deemed too large , but when someone has the gall to speak in the same tone about tupperware or rubbermaid we get our collective panties in a tight wedgie.

Yes, ball pythons are nocturnal, yes ball pythons like the security of an enclosed space and yes a piece of tupperware cuts the straightest path to providing an almost idiot proof solution.

But, ball pythons do emerge from their mounds and burrows during the night and among other things they actively hunt, climb trees (yes climb trees) and roam in search of prey, mates, water, etc.

So as long as someone correctly provides for the essential security requirements in a larger, naturalistic vivarium, then, in my humble opinion, they have improved upon the simple tupperware container.

Keep this in mind when touting the mighty plastic tub as a snake husbandry tool:

Oftentimes, we tend to recommend what works for ball pythons to people seeking info on keeping other species. I have sold cribos and other colubrids to people who have been brainwashed that they can be kept in a plastic box. Anyone who keeps large pits also is aware that they can reach sizes at adulthood that negate the possibility of cramming them into all but the largest piece of houseware (the VE175), yet a simple search on this forum will see that what works for the Linus Van Pelts (ball pythons) of the snake world is often inflicted on other species that need space to be healthy.

The routine and predictable bashers of the large enclosure or glass tank are collectively more guilty of ignorant and mind-numbing intolerance than our new friend, Crotalids. Outside of the cozy confines of BP-Net there exists a whole world of herpers who gently poke fun at the ponzi cult of the mutant royal python and the often simplistic and basic ways they are kept. Again, these husbandry practices are fine and serve the basic needs of the species, but a more comprehensive and naturally correct setup would include a larger enclosure that incorporates ALL of the husbandry parameters - including a humid and secure retreat.

Even in the 60s and 70s there were behavioral studies done on how husbandry affects the stress levels of reptiles. The psychological and physiological studies documented how in smaller enclosures, routine husbandry actions lead to greater measured stress levels. Greater, yes, detrimental - no.

In short, zookeepers and even the esteemed Mr. Conant observed that a larger vivaria with more space often lessened the stress associated with cleaning, as it allowed for slightly less strict cleaning regimes which prevented the elimination of familiar smells during cleaning. In other words, the health risks associated with leaving traces of fecal material in a large enclosure were lessened, and that when a snake could still smell his own funk after cleaning, the animal was less stressed.

In other words, in the case of BP-Net vs. Mr. Crotalids, both parties are guilty of being judgmental and yet both parties make valid points. Unfortunately, neither party is 100% correct. One party espouses the efficient use of space to provide the bare necessities for success with the aim being economy and ultimately convenience to the keeper, and the other is passionately (and maybe a little aggressively) stating that the goal of the keeper should be to exceed, not just meet the goal.

I find it a bit Quixotic that when faced with the dilemma of housing two ball pythons in one enclosure, the collective dogma screeches in protest that the only reason for doing so is for the benefit of the keeper. However when someone touts the use of a naturalistic enclosure or a large (gasp!) glass tank, they also also wail about how it is not optimal for the keeper. In other words, the masses cannot coherently reason outside of the box - or in this case the tupperware tub.
And Skip again, probably has the best post in the thread