Sad and Angry, have you seen this before?

[Vypyrz]

The distance from the rhp and the perch is prob about 7 inches, that's a guess. The perch were already mounted and I don't think it had anything to do with it. The temps I posted earlier were all surface temps measured with a temp gun. The ambient was right around 80 in the lower portion of the cage.

The probe is mounted to the rhp using a cable strap attached to the frame of the rhp. This way the probe is directly under the rhp but does not touch the surface.

It looks like everything was mounted right. I wish I had some other suggestions.

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[chet1028]

Sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how heartbreaking.

[Kaorte]

Maybe it was low humidity? Is your humidity normally so low? Gtp need a humidity cycle. The dented eye caps makes me believe it might be related.

Just an idea.

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[satomi325]

I'm sorry for your loss. It was a very beautiful snake.

[loonunit]

It's possible she just had some kind of timebomb genetic abnormality. But the move to the new enclosure is suggestive. You didn't change the substrate or anything?

...okay, the timing of the move to the new enclosure is suggestive, but it could just be something wrong with her that was waiting for a moment of a little higher stress to go off. There's a pretty good chance you didn't do anything wrong at all, and couldn't have done anything to prevent this.

I'm really sorry.

[gsarchie]

Sucks man, sorry to hear. She was a beautiful little girl.

[KMG]

Maybe it was low humidity? Is your humidity normally so low? Gtp need a humidity cycle. The dented eye caps makes me believe it might be related.

Just an idea.

I don't think so. I moved her from a glass cage that was always a battle to hold humidity, but she still shed fine and was looking healthy. The humidity I stated was what it usually ended the day at, the lows, I was still misting each day and then letting it dry out through the day.

It was hard to get a pic of but the eye looked more damaged from an impact, then from being dry. And it was only one.

It's possible she just had some kind of timebomb genetic abnormality. But the move to the new enclosure is suggestive. You didn't change the substrate or anything?

...okay, the timing of the move to the new enclosure is suggestive, but it could just be something wrong with her that was waiting for a moment of a little higher stress to go off. There's a pretty good chance you didn't do anything wrong at all, and couldn't have done anything to prevent this.

I'm really sorry.

Yea, its frustrating but I think you may be right. Nothing had changed but the cage and everything was cleaned and sanitized before going in the cage with the same cleaner. I just can't believe the timing.


Thank you all very much. I really appreciate the support. I have mixed feeling about it all. She died in my hands so part of me is glad i was there and was able to have some puzzle pieces, but the other side is sad because I could do nothing for her but watch her die. From the time I found her to her passing was less than four minutes, talk about a helpless feeling. The unknown kills me.

Repticon is next month and maybe I can find another that will bring me a much joy as she did. She really was gorgeous.

This is what I had her set up in.

[gsarchie]

Gorgeous looking enclosure and best of luck if you do get a new one.

[Skiploder]

I Just checked on my snakes. When I got to my gtp I found her on the cage floor with a mouth full of substrate. I opened the door and touched her side and she started to wiggle around like a disturbed earthworm. I picked her up and got most of the substrate out of her mouth and knew something was very wrong. She has always been very nippy but I was able to hold her head, open her mouth, and remove the substrate without protest. She would get alittle fight in her every few seconds and then her entire body contracted and she was gone.

Her head was thinner in the back and seemed flat, I think from the muscles seizing up. Her left eye had a indention in the clear membrane and after she passed I could see a blood vessel popped in the upper part of her eye. Other than that she appeared very normal.

She just got a new pvc cage with rhp that I moved her into on the 20th. This was a few days after i got it and after running test. I always run test on a cage to see the temps while unregulated and then regulated until it is dialed in. The temp and humidity has been steady and correct. Was I wrong in thinking the cage was safe with a new rhp? I got the cage from pvccages.com. Did the rhp give off gases?

I don't think that is what happened and will feel like an idiot if it did. Getting to see her final moments I feel like she had a seizure or seizures.

Has anyone had or heard of something like this before?

- - - Updated - - -



This is how she seized and past

Why don't you have her necropsied?

Off-gassing of pvc and rhps has been over-blamed in the hobby. While heating PVC and most plastics will volatize any pthalates (plasticizers) I've never seen an issue with them and I have used PVC products around neonates for many, many years.

Did the PVC cage come pre-assembled or did you have to put it together? If you did put it together did you seal the joints? If you sealed the joint what did you use?

In many of the DIY rack articles on this forum, the use of GOOP is recommended. GOOP is one of the nastiest adhesives out there and using it in an enclosed space or without airing it out properly could very well result in neurological or other health issues.

My thinking is that unless you used a fairly noxious sealer, the move to the new enclosure and her death may be at best, incidental. At worst, the stress of the move may have triggered a latent health issue.

Without a necropsy, you will never know.

[KMG]

Why don't you have her necropsied?

Off-gassing of pvc and rhps has been over-blamed in the hobby. While heating PVC and most plastics will volatize any pthalates (plasticizers) I've never seen an issue with them and I have used PVC products around neonates for many, many years.

Did the PVC cage come pre-assembled or did you have to put it together? If you did put it together did you seal the joints? If you sealed the joint what did you use?

In many of the DIY rack articles on this forum, the use of GOOP is recommended. GOOP is one of the nastiest adhesives out there and using it in an enclosed space or without airing it out properly could very well result in neurological or other health issues.

My thinking is that unless you used a fairly noxious sealer, the move to the new enclosure and her death may be at best, incidental. At worst, the stress of the move may have triggered a latent health issue.

Without a necropsy, you will never know.

I thought about it. I bought the cage preassembled and didn't have to seal anything. I thought gases from the rhp shouldn't be the cause but I wanted to make sure for future knowledge. While a necropsy may give me an answer it will not bring her back and at this point I don't think it was anything I had control of. The gas was just my first thought after a seizure and I wanted to ask the forum to make sure I failed to read a warning on rhp's.