Need Opinions!

[Zombie]

I'm sure you can also breed a 900g female, and things can work out fine.
You can also drink before you drive, and not crash. You can smoke and never get cancer.

I have yet to meet a professional breeder, or read from experts that DON"T say, "under 1500g is increased risk to mother and eggs.

It should not go unoticed that the OP lost more than 1/2 the first clutch.

Of course, your snake, your choice

Page 83 of Kevin McCurley's book, The Complete Ball Python, states female breesing size is 1000+. Breeding is about healthy body condition as Satomi said. Just because a few people on the Internet state a female should be 1500g + to breed and then it gets regurgitated at great length does not make it a fact.

Comparing it to drunk driving is a little out there. I have never had an egg bound female, and I have bred many females under 1500g with perfect clutches every time. The only time a friend of mine had an egg bound female was a 3200 gram girl. So that just about disproves your theory.

How many snakes have you bred? How many people do you know and can prove have had females die or become egg bound under 1500g?

What do you consider a professional breeder? I have a business license and do this for a living...

[Mike41793]

I'm sure you can also breed a 900g female, and things can work out fine.
You can also drink before you drive, and not crash. You can smoke and never get cancer.

I have yet to meet a professional breeder, or read from experts that DON"T say, "under 1500g is increased risk to mother and eggs.

It should not go unoticed that the OP lost more than 1/2 the first clutch.

Of course, your snake, your choice

What pro breeders are you talking about? Throw out some names to back up those statements.

Some females never reach 1500grams, does that mean they shouldnt be bred? Im sure there are 1200gram females put there that lay healthy 4-6egg clutches every year. The snakes wont ever get any bigger than this. Same way that not every female will reach 3kg+. Not all get that big.

Obviously humans are different but thats like saying theres a certain weight that women should get pregnant at and they cant before they reach that weight. Or saying that EVERY girl is sexually mature at the same age. Some girls just "develop" sooner than others. This isnt the case with humans and isnt the case with snakes. They all grow and develop at different rates and if they arent sexually mature they wont lay for you. Same way if a girl isnt sexually mature, well, she cant get pregnant.

*In no way am i condoning teen pregnancy, just trying to use easy examples lol*

EDIT: Also im guessing he lost part of the clutch due to the fact that he was not ready for eggs and didnt know how to properly care for them or the babies once they hatched. Once again, just a hunch.

[joebad976]

I'm sure you can also breed a 900g female, and things can work out fine.
You can also drink before you drive, and not crash. You can smoke and never get cancer.

I have yet to meet a professional breeder, or read from experts that DON"T say, "under 1500g is increased risk to mother and eggs.

It should not go unoticed that the OP lost more than 1/2 the first clutch.

Of course, your snake, your choice

What do the females tell the males in the wild? "Excuse me sir but I am a bit under 1500g this year so please move on and put your hemipenes in another lady. Thank you and have a nice day."

Come on if they are ready they will go. I bred my first ever Bp last season a 2009 pastel she was 2.5yrs old 1600g. Had numerous locks no eggs. Go figure

[ChrisP]

Not to be a party pooper, but 1300g, is a drop light to breed the girl, and when are you planning to breed the 800g female you are considering?

The rule is 3 (years old)-3 (ft. long)-1500g

Rushing it is not wise.

If you re read that but I wrote that I purchased the snake at 1300g expecting to get her to 1500g and she dropped eggs. I have never bred before. If I pick up the pin I will be waiting till she has doubled her weight.

[AdamF]

Page 83 of Kevin McCurley's book, The Complete Ball Python, states female breesing size is 1000+. Breeding is about healthy body condition as Satomi said. Just because a few people on the Internet state a female should be 1500g + to breed and then it gets regurgitated at great length does not make it a fact.

Comparing it to drunk driving is a little out there. I have never had an egg bound female, and I have bred many females under 1500g with perfect clutches every time. The only time a friend of mine had an egg bound female was a 3200 gram girl. So that just about disproves your theory.

How many snakes have you bred? How many people do you know and can prove have had females die or become egg bound under 1500g?

What do you consider a professional breeder? I have a business license and do this for a living...

YOU are a pro-breeder! I just returned from a show where I spoke with several "pros" like you. They ALL say the same thing, "You can breed a female under 1000g, and you can breed a male as low as 500g, if you are very experienced and have perfect husbandry. Otherwise, if you are only a casual breeder/hobbyist, you are safest with 1500 (F) and 800 (M)"

I cannot prove anyone had a bad experience, outside anecdotally, what I've heard/read.

I am certainly not a pro, and it sounded to me like the OP was also a first time breeder. In that situation, I find it irresponsible to suggest that an amateur should TRY what a pro can DO, on their first attempt. I believe it better for the animals and the collectors to try the safest path first, gain experience, before attempting what a pro has taken years to hone.

All IMHO of course. Please dont' take the wrong way

- - - Updated - - -

What pro breeders are you talking about? Throw out some names to back up those statements.

Some females never reach 1500grams, does that mean they shouldnt be bred? Im sure there are 1200gram females put there that lay healthy 4-6egg clutches every year. The snakes wont ever get any bigger than this. Same way that not every female will reach 3kg+. Not all get that big.

Obviously humans are different but thats like saying theres a certain weight that women should get pregnant at and they cant before they reach that weight. Or saying that EVERY girl is sexually mature at the same age. Some girls just "develop" sooner than others. This isnt the case with humans and isnt the case with snakes. They all grow and develop at different rates and if they arent sexually mature they wont lay for you. Same way if a girl isnt sexually mature, well, she cant get pregnant.

*In no way am i condoning teen pregnancy, just trying to use easy examples lol*

EDIT: Also im guessing he lost part of the clutch due to the fact that he was not ready for eggs and didnt know how to properly care for them or the babies once they hatched. Once again, just a hunch.

I think you lost us all when you compared human breeding, to BP breeding!

- - - Updated - - -

What do the females tell the males in the wild? "Excuse me sir but I am a bit under 1500g this year so please move on and put your hemipenes in another lady. Thank you and have a nice day."

Come on if they are ready they will go. I bred my first ever Bp last season a 2009 pastel she was 2.5yrs old 1600g. Had numerous locks no eggs. Go figure

Let's see, last time I checked, we are not talking about wild snakes. You didn't "breed" your BP, last season, you just paired her. There is no guaranteed formula for producing a clutch, vs jeopardizing a female. The only "guideline" for amateur breeder/hobbyists, is 1500-3-3. I kinda wonder, "what's the harm in waiting?"