Wobble in snakes produced by Spider combos?

[Royal Hijinx]

I have a pinstripe, who was sired by a spider, who has a noticeable wobble. I don't know if they are linked or just a coincidence, but there is no mistaking that its there.

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That may be an incubation issue?

[h00blah]

When ever I look to buy a spider(or combo) the first question is how is the wobble?

You know what the answer always is when I ask if the snake has a wobble?

"Definitely no wobble in my spiders!"

That's the answer I would get from everyone I would ask .. I don't ask them to find out if it has a wobble or not, I only ask how SEVERE it is... Will it be so bad that it bothers me?? Will it barely be noticeable, if at all like Jinx's calider?? Instead, I get the salesmen.

However, in response to Jinx's video, my spider used to only eat LIVE rats, and he switched over to f/t. When feeding on live, he never wobbled... His head would slightly shift from left to right, but it looked like normal ball python "zeroing-in" behavior. When I switched him to f/t, I hold the mouse in front of him, but it's still in the air.. This is when I noticed him wobble.

[West Coast Jungle]

You know what the answer always is when I ask if the snake has a wobble?

"Definitely no wobble in my spiders!"

That's the answer I would get from everyone I would ask .. I don't ask them to find out if it has a wobble or not, I only ask how SEVERE it is... Will it be so bad that it bothers me?? Will it barely be noticeable, if at all like Jinx's calider?? Instead, I get the salesmen.

However, in response to Jinx's video, my spider used to only eat LIVE rats, and he switched over to f/t. When feeding on live, he never wobbled... His head would slightly shift from left to right, but it looked like normal ball python "zeroing-in" behavior. When I switched him to f/t, I hold the mouse in front of him, but it's still in the air.. This is when I noticed him wobble.

I usually know/trust the person I am dealing with, but I agree they all have it to some degree.

[Royal Hijinx]

When feeding F/T to the Spinner, he has missed before, but did not wobble before that. Just flat out missed.

[WingedWolfPsion]

It's not 'attached' to the spider gene, and it is not a separate gene.

It IS the spider gene. Many mutations affect multiple systems in the body. Whatever gene is responsible for the spider morph, it causes pattern, color, AND neurological changes.

Wobbling is not always genetic. It can also be caused by neurological damage during incubation, if the temperature spikes. It's usually recommended not to breed such animals, as it MAY be due to a new mutation that only causes the wobble, but in reality, it is almost always developmental, and would not be passed on. Temperature-spike defects shouldn't be confused for genetic issues. If there's strong reason to suspect a spike, a spike is known, then keep this in mind when evaluating hatchlings.

Some morph genes cause issues. A geneticist would probably be fascinated by these snakes, and I know I would be curious to know what the mutation is that causes both changes in colors and in neurological development or function.

This type of thing isn't unprecedented at all. For example, piebald and albino animals (such as dogs and cats) are prone to deafness, because melanocytes in the inner ear are related to normal hearing. Blue-eyed white cats, for example, are usually deaf--65% to 85% of the time.

It's possible, of course, that blue-eyed leucistic ball pythons are, as well. Testing for it would be an interesting puzzle.

[rlditmars]

Thank you everyone for all of your responses. I will start looking at Spiders and variations on them at some shows just to do a little more research.

BTW to WingedWolfPsion, I hear the pied ball pythons have proven to show 100% deafness, so you could be onto something.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

"Definitely no wobble in my spiders!"

That's the answer I would get from everyone I would ask .. I don't ask them to find out if it has a wobble or not, I only ask how SEVERE it is... Will it be so bad that it bothers me?? Will it barely be noticeable, if at all like Jinx's calider?? Instead, I get the salesmen.

You've been asking the wrong people

Whenever someone has asked me "does this spider wobble" I have always answer they all do and than I go on into a long explanation.

I have been lucky that my original spider has a very slight wobble and so far all of her offsprings do the same (at least the ones I have held back)

[h00blah]

You've been asking the wrong people

Whenever someone has asked me "does this spider wobble" I have always answer they all do and than I go on into a long explanation.

I have been lucky that my original spider has a very slight wobble and so far all of her offsprings do the same (at least the ones I have held back)

Yeah I know... LOL. Luckily I'm not looking for any other spider morph . I got all the spider I need right now

[Serpent_Nirvana]

It's not 'attached' to the spider gene, and it is not a separate gene.

We haven't proven this (unless somebody did when I wasn't looking!). It absolutely could be a separate, but very tightly linked gene -- so tightly linked that one is not inherited without the other.

I tend to believe that it is due to the pleiotropic effects of one single mutation, only because there are now so many mutations that we know to be affected with similar neurologic problems (woma, HG woma, sable, champagne, etc., etc..). However, the scattered reports of neurologic non-spider offspring from spider parents does make me wonder if we are looking at a linked gene that is very rarely crossing over. I doubt it, but it isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

[WingedWolfPsion]

We haven't proven this (unless somebody did when I wasn't looking!). It absolutely could be a separate, but very tightly linked gene -- so tightly linked that one is not inherited without the other.

You know, I will be the first to say I am not a geneticist, I haven't taken any college courses on the subject, BUT....
I do not think this is actually a thing. I've never heard of this being possible, and I cannot imagine how it COULD be possible. Genes do not stick together in this fashion. Yes, I've heard that claim about granite and HG Woma, but again...I do not think this is actually possible.

If someone has a valid (scientific) reference to back this up, I would of course change my mind. I'd be curious as to the explanation on how genes can become 'stuck together'.

I will point out, however, that even if this were true, the original imported spider had the wobble, so it doesn't really matter--for all intents and purposes, it would act as a single gene.