homeschooling

[Slim]

Everyone should be free to make their own choices when it comes to how their children are educated...start to finish.

Homeschooling is not for everyone. I meet people all the time who certainly should not be teaching their own children. But, as I have said about so many issues, I support their right to do as they see fit, even if I think they're idiots.

Homeschooling is not the root of evil and will not hasten the arrival of the zombie apocalypse. Neither will sending your kids to public school….ok, that one might, but I digress.

The important thing is to get educated on the facts and make an informed decision.

[sleepygeckos]

Your statement both sells homeschool parents short, and idealizes teachers. A mistake on both ends. If you are an average person, then you should probably send your kids to public school. The parents of the homeschooled kids I work with are far above average.

Several states have the same program for homeschooled students. In fact, per capita, homeschooled students have a higher acceptance rate and generally carry a heavier course load both in terms of number of hours and academic challenge.

Well, if it is a debate not directed at anyone, as per your response to olstyn, then is it not appropriate to show statistics that prove homeschooled students have higher acceptance rates and carry a larger course load? *I* know this is not the case in my state because, as I said, I have taught at the University level: Homeschoolers have a very difficult time getting into colleges and universities because of different laws regarding GED or if they can get a HS diploma. However, I will agree that the ones that do make it often do take a higher course load because they have to in order to catch up with the requirements and often require extra hours of instructor assistance (which instructors are never paid enough for) because they simply need the help and are used to one on one help. From what I have personally seen, many end up in the local community college, not that there is anything wrong with that - great way to start to save money normally, but they spend twice as long there basically re-doing high school. It is very hard and very sad to see.

Homeschooling can be very hard on the students for many of the reasons others have said above and it makes me sad for the students that really could do so much better in public school. Whatever tradeoff is being used as the reason for taking the child of school, IMHExperience is not worth the potential loss of the whole public adventure.

What I don't understand is how my comment "idealizes" teachers if I stated that many of them are burnt out and worthless?

And for my source, you seem to be beating around the bush - I have admitted several times to being on contract a few times teaching at a University level. I taught Engineering (Undergraduate and Graduate levels) and I also volunteer for a local high school for handicapped students, where we do everything in our power so we can to get those students into "regular" classrooms.

[olstyn]

And even though I did answer it indirectly, let me be less cryptic; while a homeschooling parent might not be the best teacher in every subject, most are better overall educators, and certainly in a better position to know when outside sourcing is needed for specific subjects.

And,

Who did I attack that wasn’t in the conversation? If you took my post as an attack, then that is on you. I was making counter points to your debate. That's how debate works. At least that's what I teach the homeschooled kids on the debate team I coach. A two time Virginia state VISAA winning debate team, at that

Indirectly answered, eh? It looked more like an attempt to deflect/ignore the question and redirect the conversation in a different direction, which is a tactic many politicians use during debates. As to who you attacked that wasn't in the conversation to defend themselves, I didn't think that was terribly difficult to understand: public school teachers. You said the vast majority of them are awful, which is, at least in MY experience, untrue.

[Rob]

Everyone should be free to make their own choices when it comes to how their children are educated...start to finish..

X 2 to each there own.

[Slim]

is it not appropriate to show statistics that prove homeschooled students have higher acceptance rates and carry a larger course load?

First off, I was talking specifically about homeschoolers doing dual placement during their Jr/Sr years of high school. That was the question asked. That was subject of my response. You jumped straight to full acceptance to college after homeschool graduation. A separate subject, but one I will address in a moment.

Secondly, I said per capita. According to research done by Dr. Rhonda Galloway, Bob Jones University, 38% of homeschooled students participate in a dual enrollment program at junior colleges, trade school, colleges and universities. Do more than 38% of traditional high school Jrs/Srs participate in the same type of programs? Exclude work/study programs where they work half a day at McDonalds, and I think your research will show you that they do not.

*I* know this is not the case in my state because, as I said, I have taught at the University level: Homeschoolers have a very difficult time getting into colleges and universities because of different laws regarding GED or if they can get a HS diploma.

The difficulty of getting into college with a GED (and every state is different about what kind of certificate a homeschool graduate earns, many award diplomas) is the great myth of homeschooling. And with few exceptions, a GED and a qualifying SAT score is all you need to get into college. And before you go listing places like Harvard and Yale as places you can't possibly get into if you were homeschooled, please do your homework.

Further research done by Dr. Galloway shows that:

- Stanford University in the fall of 1999 accepted 27% of homeschooled applicants. This is twice the acceptance rate of publicly and privately schooled students.

- Homeschooled students at Boston University had an average GPA of 3.3, and Kennesaw State University confirms that the GPA’s of their homeschooled students are significantly higher than the average.

I acknowledge your teaching experience. I taught for four years at the United States Air Force Accademy preparatory school. In four years I never had a homeschooled student...they all bypassed the prep school and went straight to the USAFA, which should tell you something. The Air Force Academy has fairly stringent academic requirements for acceptance. Homeschooled graduates have made up from 3 to 5% of the USAFA freshmen class since 2004.

I also currently work with homeschooled students as a subject matter expert.

However, I will agree that the ones that do make it often do take a higher course load because they have to in order to catch up with the requirements and often require extra hours of instructor assistance (which instructors are never paid enough for) because they simply need the help and are used to one on one help.

Sounds like you are basing this on your anecdotal experience. Mine has been just the opposite.

but they spend twice as long there basically re-doing high school.

Do you have any data to back this statement or is it also anecdotal?

Homeschooling can be very hard on the students for many of the reasons others have said above and it makes me sad for the students that really could do so much better in public school. Whatever tradeoff is being used as the reason for taking the child of school, IMHExperience is not worth the potential loss of the whole public adventure.

This is entirely your opinion, which you are entitled to, but please don't try and pass it off as fact. And, what you call a public adventure, some would call a public disaster. There are two sides to that coin.

What I don't understand is how my comment "idealizes" teachers if I stated that many of them are burnt out and worthless?

Because that is not all you stated. What you said was:

even a completely, should be fired, burnt out teacher is still going to know their material better than the average person.

Saying that a really bad teacher (with a certificate suitable for framing) is better than not having a teacher at all, is showing just a little idolization...

Indirectly answered, eh? It looked more like an attempt to deflect/ignore the question and redirect the conversation in a different direction, which is a tactic many politicians use during debates. As to who you attacked that wasn't in the conversation to defend themselves, I didn't think that was terribly difficult to understand: public school teachers. You said the vast majority of them are awful, which is, at least in MY experience, untrue.

LMAO, I'm sorry, I did not realize that the subject of a conversation had to actually be present to win here in the Off Topic Cafe...

MY experience with public school teachers has been different than yours.

And you misrepresented my statement. I said that:

Most public school teachers have long since given up on actually trying to teach...and the one's that still give a crap are hamstrung by more stupid school district policies than Carter has Little Liver Pills

Talk about a tactic many politicians use during debates...

[spygirl]

I'm usually just a lurker, but this topic tends to raise my hackles...

Two of my younger cousins are home schooled. They've been home schooled for roughly 3 years now. The older one, who is dyslexic, is now 17 and the younger one is 16. My aunt chose to pull them out of public school for two reasons.

1.) The school refused to work with the older cousin's learning disabilities. They promised him lunches at the local cafes if he passed tests. He couldn't keep up with note taking. So he failed. And when he failed, he was yelled at by his teachers.

2.) My younger cousin was being bullied by other girls at school. My aunt asked the principal, "So, you're basically telling me she has to be eating concrete before you do something?" The principal said yes.

They use a home school co-op. A local vet teaches biology and my aunt, who is a nutritionist and personal trainer, teaches health and physical education. Other subjects they learn from lectures online. The older cousin is now excelling in what he was failing because he is better at taking notes. My younger cousin is now taking classes at the local community college and will graduate from high school early.

They get plenty of interaction from their peers through church groups, 4H, co-op sports teams, dance, and rodeo. The co-op competes in a few sports, writing, art, and other things against schools in the area. For the last 2 years, my younger cousin has won overall in a short story competition amongst 100 something students, most who attend public school.

If they has stayed in public school, they would have never had the opportunity to excel the way they have. In Texas, it feels like all the kids are learning how to do is to pass the standardized tests. In my area, the school systems are horrible. When it comes time, we will most likely home school our son. Yes, there are home school kids who have problems in the "real world." But it's also the same for lots of public school kids.

[sleepygeckos]

Dr. Rhonda Galloway, Bob Jones University

Huh, that's interesting, google says... Bob Jones University (BJU) is a private, for-profit,non-denominational Protestant university in Greenville, South Carolina.

Also, work-study programs hardly let students "work at McDonalds" half a day - that's showing your own ignorance.

It is clear this conversation is not serving the thread. I'm sorry for my part in threadjacking, but a friend pointed this out to me and hoped I'd to bring some, obviously unwelcome, enlightenment.

[Slim]

They use a home school co-op. A local vet teaches biology and my aunt, who is a nutritionist and personal trainer, teaches health and physical education.

I am instructor in a similar Co-Op style teaching circle.

Huh, that's interesting, google says... Bob Jones University (BJU) is a private, for-profit,non-denominational Protestant university in Greenville, South Carolina.

Google is correct about that. What makes that so wrong, and how does it invalidate Dr. Galloway's research? Even though I, myself am an atheist, the academic in me has no problems recognizing that many religiously affiliated or founded colleges and universities are fine schools.

What do you have the greater problem with? Is it that that BJU is private, for-profit, Protestant, or that it’s located in Greenville, South Carolina? Clearly you have some issue since selected that as the focus of your post. Not trying to be snotty, but I do find it interesting that you would focus so closely on that.

Also, work-study programs hardly let students "work at McDonalds" half a day - that's showing your own ignorance.

Funny, Hampton High School, yes, the Home of the Crabbers, has exactly that program for their seniors. In fact, I personally know two young men who are doing that very program right now...as we speak...this semester. I won't take any offense at you calling me ignorant since you are seemingly ignorant of what I do and don't know for a fact. I do find it interesting that you obviously think I just make this stuff up...

It is clear this conversation is not serving the thread. I'm sorry for my part in threadjacking, but a friend pointed this out to me and hoped I'd to bring some, obviously unwelcome, enlightenment.

Not sure how any of this is threadjacking. We are talking about homeschooling, and as I stated earlier, the more you know about the pros and cons, the more informed your decision will ultimately be. I would say that if the OP is still following this thread, she has seen quite a bit of both sides of the debate. I'm sorry you feel your part in it was wasted.