Females Ready at 2nd Winter ? (or 1500 g)

[mattchibi]

Hey guys

Sorry Ive been full of questions lately. Ive just had to do a bunch of planning and keep running into the same issues.

So this is a two part question. 1) For a 2011 hatchling- I have a female who is already at almost ~600 grams now, and might possibly be ~1500 grams by next winter, but I dont really want to breed her next winter. I want to wait until her third winter (so she would be about two years old and a bit, hatched July 2011 I believe) until she is way bigger like closer to 2000 grams. So question 1: is there any downside to making them bigger and waiting longer before pairing? I know with males, they tend to get a bit lethargic and lazy when they are too fat.

And 2) I have an undersized 3 year old female normal that was kind of a rescue. I never had intentions of her breeding at first, but when she started putting on size fast, I changed my mind. She was 30 inches long and 550 grams when I first got her, super small, but now shes pushing 38 inches and sits easily just over 1000 grams. My question is: since she was raised poorly for her first 3 years and was underfed etc, is it still safe to try and breed her? And as well, does anyone have any experience with past undersized rescues? I really want to see if its still possible for her to become at least a 1500-2000 gram female, but of course, I regard her safety as my #1 priority.

[Cameron Lamb Exotics]

There isnt a downsize to waiting for your 2011 to gain in size. Just because she would be up to size doesnt mean her sexual organs are physically ready to produce. Plus your chances of a larger clutch are more likely.
As far as your rescue goes I think it would depend on what kind of conditions she was living in. If she was just underfed I dont see a problem as long as she now will have better muscle growth and is healthy. But if she were to have any deformaties or such from being a rescue then I would stray away from breeding.

[mattchibi]

There isnt a downsize to waiting for your 2011 to gain in size. Just because she would be up to size doesnt mean her sexual organs are physically ready to produce. Plus your chances of a larger clutch are more likely.
As far as your rescue goes I think it would depend on what kind of conditions she was living in. If she was just underfed I dont see a problem as long as she now will have better muscle growth and is healthy. But if she were to have any deformaties or such from being a rescue then I would stray away from breeding.

What would happen if, say, that same 2011 black pastel female wasnt bred until 3 winters from now? Would she keep gaining and gaining weight? Ive seen some 5000 gram ball pythons and Ive always wondered how big of a clutch they usually lay.

And the rescue was simply underfed. She was always fed f/t so there are no issues with scarring or anything like that but was only fed once a month, and shes completely healthy as far as I am concerned. No RI's, no weird IBD symptoms or any other sicknesses, healthy sheds, healthy poos, consistent eating.. shes eating so well its like shes trying to catch up to the other '08 girls out there.

[The Serpent Merchant]

Breeding doesn't keep them growing, they will grow either way. if you breed a female she is going to lose some weight to the clutch then have to gain it back but at the end of the day a 3000 gram female is going to stay at 3000 grams.

Waiting has zero negative effects, if anything it is beneficial by allowing the female to put on as much weight as she is going to and ensure that she is sexually mature.

[Mike41793]

Personally id wait. Itd be playing it safe, and your chances of bigger clutches will go up. Id rather wait a year and get maybe double the eggs.

[mattchibi]

Breeding doesn't keep them growing, they will grow either way. if you breed a female she is going to lose some weight to the clutch then have to gain it back but at the end of the day a 3000 gram female is going to stay at 3000 grams.

Waiting has zero negative effects, if anything it is beneficial by allowing the female to put on as much weight as she is going to and ensure that she is sexually mature.

So what youre saying is that if your female is 3000 grams before pairing, after laying & regaining her weight after a year, she will still roughly be around 3000 grams? Is there any increase of weight at all? And does it just depend on the snake itself (whether she eats, how much, or her metabolism, etc)?

And yeah I agree with you all, I am definitely waiting for the 3rd winter, just wanted to make sure there it was a good idea.

[Slim]

Snakes grow for their entire lives as long as food is abundant. When they reach adulthood, the growth slows down to a crawl.

As long as you give her time to recover, a girl who is genetically predisposed to weigh in at 3000ish grams will find that weight again after she lays, then continue to slowly gain.

[DemmBalls]

So what youre saying is that if your female is 3000 grams before pairing, after laying & regaining her weight after a year, she will still roughly be around 3000 grams? Is there any increase of weight at all? And does it just depend on the snake itself (whether she eats, how much, or her metabolism, etc)?

And yeah I agree with you all, I am definitely waiting for the 3rd winter, just wanted to make sure there it was a good idea.

It all depends on the female, her eating habits, etc. I have one female who lays big clutches every year and gains all of her lost weight plus a good amount of additional weight every year before the next breeding season. She is a great eater though. A picky eater may not gain any extra weight by the following season and my not even gain the lost weight back. It all comes down to the individual snake.

[PweEzy]

So what youre saying is that if your female is 3000 grams before pairing, after laying & regaining her weight after a year, she will still roughly be around 3000 grams? Is there any increase of weight at all? And does it just depend on the snake itself (whether she eats, how much, or her metabolism, etc)?

And yeah I agree with you all, I am definitely waiting for the 3rd winter, just wanted to make sure there it was a good idea.

As an example, I bought my normal girl after she had laid for the previous owner, she was bred when she was 1500g. When I got her she had gained back the weight lost in laying eggs and was about 1500g. Today she weighs in at 2400g.

They definitely keep growing

[Lorgakor]

Breeding some species (example carpet pythons) early keeps them from reaching their full size potential. I wonder if the same is true for ball pythons? I would definitely wait. As for the rescue, how long have you had her? I would give her a year or two to recover myself.