The codominance myth

[Slim]

I like Ball Pythons with cool paint jobs!

All this gene talk makes my little cranium hurt

[mainbutter]

Didn't read the thread fully, but just wanted to reply to the OP:

Others (including myself) have brought this up before, and thank you for bringing it up again. I think that most people these days could do with a refresher of 9th grade biology, or at least a read through a half dozen wikipedia articles on genetics.

Every time I hear someone use co-dominant incorrectly, its hard to not imagine that they dropped out of school in 8th grade.

This is a pretty good read, and concise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics)

[Royal Hijinx]

Didn't read the thread fully, but just wanted to reply to the OP:

Others (including myself) have brought this up before, and thank you for bringing it up again. I think that most people these days could do with a refresher of 9th grade biology, or at least a read through a half dozen wikipedia articles on genetics.

Every time I hear someone use co-dominant incorrectly, its hard to not imagine that they dropped out of school in 8th grade.

This is a pretty good read, and concise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics)

That is a bit harsh. Some of us have one or more degrees in a science field and use CoDom out of convenience, as it is the word used by the community. So insinuating 99% of the BP community did not graduate high school is a bit wonky. Furthermore, if any word conveys to the other person in the conversation the point you are trying to get across, then is it functioning in the intended manner.

Also, I still do not think it is as obvious on a patterned animal. If snake A was white and Snake B was Black and the mix was grey (or peppered black and white), then we could say one way or the other with certainty. I will concede, after reading more on it myself, that Incomplete Dominance it likely the case for the most part, but I do not think it is that simple. As was stated before there can be other traits associated with these genes that we may or may not immediately see. I also am not fully convinced that what is happening with a Super Pastel which is just a amped up version of the heterozygous form, is the same thing happening with the BEL and YB complexes which show a completely different "super" form.

Either way, people use the term CoDom to describe the phenomenon in BP, right or wrong, but I am sure a few of the geniuses around here (or the only ones, obviously, with a high school diploma) can change the wording used by the community.

[kevinb]

That is a bit harsh. Some of us have one or more degrees in a science field and use CoDom out of convenience, as it is the word used by the community. So insinuating 99% of the BP community did not graduate high school is a bit wonky. Furthermore, if any word conveys to the other person in the conversation the point you are trying to get across, then is it functioning in the intended manner.

Also, I still do not think it is as obvious on a patterned animal. If snake A was white and Snake B was Black and the mix was grey (or peppered black and white), then we could say one way or the other with certainty. I will concede, after reading more on it myself, that Incomplete Dominance it likely the case for the most part, but I do not think it is that simple. As was stated before there can be other traits associated with these genes that we may or may not immediately see. I also am not fully convinced that what is happening with a Super Pastel which is just a amped up version of the heterozygous form, is the same thing happening with the BEL and YB complexes which show a completely different "super" form.

Either way, people use the term CoDom to describe the phenomenon in BP, right or wrong, but I am sure a few of the geniuses around here (or the only ones, obviously, with a high school diploma) can change the wording used by the community.

Id have to agree with this. I graduated high school with honors, took every science class available to me minus physics because my schedule could not allow it and I still don't know that much about genetics when seeing it on paper. I gradually learned breeding this to that makes this, but of you told me to make punnitt square (apologies on spelling) I wouldn't be able to. Not because I'm stupid or ignorant, but because high school doesn't teach to much about genetics. To much confusion in my opinion.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

[OhhWatALoser]

Didn't read the thread fully, but just wanted to reply to the OP:

Others (including myself) have brought this up before, and thank you for bringing it up again. I think that most people these days could do with a refresher of 9th grade biology, or at least a read through a half dozen wikipedia articles on genetics.

Every time I hear someone use co-dominant incorrectly, its hard to not imagine that they dropped out of school in 8th grade.

This is a pretty good read, and concise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics)

When your insulting others for doing something incorrectly and give them a link, you might want to make sure it is linked correctly... just saying.

I'm in the "I don't care" group, people know what you mean, I'm aware of it being incorrect but ill go with the community standard.

[Jabberwocky Dragons]

That is a bit harsh. Some of us have one or more degrees in a science field and use CoDom out of convenience, as it is the word used by the community. So insinuating 99% of the BP community did not graduate high school is a bit wonky. Furthermore, if any word conveys to the other person in the conversation the point you are trying to get across, then is it functioning in the intended manner.

Also, I still do not think it is as obvious on a patterned animal. If snake A was white and Snake B was Black and the mix was grey (or peppered black and white), then we could say one way or the other with certainty. I will concede, after reading more on it myself, that Incomplete Dominance it likely the case for the most part, but I do not think it is that simple. As was stated before there can be other traits associated with these genes that we may or may not immediately see. I also am not fully convinced that what is happening with a Super Pastel which is just a amped up version of the heterozygous form, is the same thing happening with the BEL and YB complexes which show a completely different "super" form.

Either way, people use the term CoDom to describe the phenomenon in BP, right or wrong, but I am sure a few of the geniuses around here (or the only ones, obviously, with a high school diploma) can change the wording used by the community.

I understand what your saying about BEL and YB's. The definition of incomplete dominance is a reduction in the expressiveness of the gene in a heterozygote.

The reduction in expression can be a great deal or very little. I suspect the expression is only reduced a little for Pastels which is why they look very similar to the super form. I also suspect the expression is greatly reduced for BEL's and YB which is why the het form is so much different than the homozygous form. The perfect blend of white flowers plus red flowers equals pink flowers does not happen all that often... it's more of a sliding scale of expression.

It is possible that the YB and BEL follow polygenic or pleiotropic inheritance but they fit the textbook definition of incomplete dominance so without identifying the genes involved, it seems easiest at this point to label them incomplete. I agree though there could be more behind the scenes that is not apparent yet.

I agree too that there's nothing wrong with saying codominance and there's no need for anyone to be harsh about it. It's being used mostly as a trade term, not a scientific one.

[Royal Hijinx]

Yeah, my point is it is not as cut and dry as it may appear. I see how a lot of it falls in to incomplete dominance, but it has not been proven either way if there is more going on.

People coming in basically calling everyone else idiots for not labeling is one way or the other is pointless.

This still does not touch the can of worms around Platty, Toffee, Banana and Desert. Just more evidence that what we think we know is a small portion of what is really going on.

[OhhWatALoser]

This still does not touch the can of worms around Platty, Toffee, Banana and Desert. Just more evidence that what we think we know is a small portion of what is really going on.

whats to figure out about the platty or toffee?

[Royal Hijinx]

I have read how the Platty and Lesser thing works breeding wise, but is there a definite genetic explanation?

Toffee compatibility with Albino thing came as a surprise to what folks thought.

I may just not be read up enough on the two.

[OhhWatALoser]

I have read how the Platty and Lesser thing works breeding wise, but is there a definite genetic explanation?

Toffee compatibility with Albino thing came as a surprise to what folks thought.

I may just not be read up enough on the two.

explanation is they sit on the same locus, just like all the other BEL genes.

It's really not that big of a surprise when you think about it, two genes that effect melanin, just one is tyrosinase positive and one is tyrosinase negative, not to much of a stretch.

Look at hypo and motley in boas, completely different looking animals, both genes sit on the same locus, one reduces melanin and the other increases melanin, so not really a big surprise, just crazy how two genes that look so different are so close.