Help! My ball wants to eat me! D:

[Dember]

Yep, that's her! =D
My neighbors (the same ones with the pitbull who can jump about six feet high) have a really nasty-tempered chihuahua named Bella (after the Twilight character) whom we see every day, so I've been considering a different name for her, Jon said he was sure she wouldn't mind, hah.
I really like Mariska, but it's not decided yet. Ironically, "Riska" has been pretty accurate lately, though.

The breeder I know, Mike, has offered to let me breed her to one of his two male piebalds or his super pastel in another year or two, once she's old enough and big enough. What do you think?
My male is a possible het pied, so if I were to keep any of her female potential offspring, I may be able to breed my own piebalds someday. SO beautiful.

She's in a very low-traffic area in my bedroom, I am the only one who moves around in here, and I'm almost always in my recliner or on my bed when I'm in here at all, so she can't see me. She mostly only notices me when I mist her, in which case it's "watch your fingers" time about three to five times a day.
And yes, I wash my hands before and after handling my scaly babies, just to be safe. I don't think it's scent that the problem if she's trying to bite me through the glass as I reach for her misting bottle, though.

Mike seemed certain that she just has a peculiarly high prey drive. I have to agree from how identical the movements are. I really don't think it's actual aggression -- otherwise, why would she be so calm, as soon as I lift her out of the enclosure? She could certainly still strike me if she wanted to, but she calms right down.

I'm very on the fence when it comes to "feeding in the enclosure can and does make them expect a meal every time the lid is opened". I wouldn't feed mine in there regardless, but even my neighbor, who recently flung a live mouse in with his, has had the snake strike at him when reaching in to handle it since then, when previously it would just curl up under a hide or explore the decorations and never objected to being held.
It seems far too coincidental to me, and I just see no upside to it when both of mine eat perfectly outside of their enclosures.

I had to handle my male once after he ate because his heat lamp wasn't working right. I was worried he would get too cold in a tank without a proper heating element, so I brought him with me to the pet store to replace it. Far from regurgitating or anything, the little lazyball curled up inside my shirt and never moved except to peek out once in a while. I definitely wouldn't do it again short of complete necessity, but the "don't bother them at all or they'll barf" seemed a bit of an exaggeration, at least with him. Thank god..I'd really rather not have a vomited rat in my shirt. Just..NO. =/

So far, I have only handled her once to feed her and once to spot-clean when she passed a urate about the size of a walnut. I'm used to the jellybean-sized ones that my Nicci leaves, so that was quite a sight.

Feeding her was amazing, I have to admit. "Extreme" is indeed a good word for it, I jumped about a foot with every rat she took, just from the sheer force and speed of her strikes. I sure am glad they weren't alive to feel it, she's like a cougar on a rabbit.
My mother was watching, and she got to "You just got her, do you think she'll take--" before shouting (and mind you, she never swears even the slightest bit) "DAYUM!"
She ate one right after the other with similar interrupted comments of "You sure she wants anoth--" and "Do you think she's even still hungr--WHOA!"
It was really awesome to experience, Nicci is a good eater but he never goes insane over meals like that, he rarely even constricts them with more than just his neck. One thing I can sure say about her, by no means is she shy nor a poor eater.

I measured the thickest part of her body's diameter before I fed her and she was about seven inches around or so. My breeder recommended bumping her up to a medium (which Jon said she has taken before) and then to a large, if the hips of the rodent aren't much bigger around than she is, no more than 1.5 times her girth. I hope so, with three small rats in one meal, she's going to eat me out of house and home if I don't do something.

As it is, I really hope I can get the supplies to build her an enclosure soon, I was going to go last week but my ride fell through due to a back injury (NEED to get my license..).
If she doesn't strike in the tub, I doubt she'd do it in a new enclosure, or anywhere aside from a glass tank, apparently.


I know snakes can digest an impressive variety of materials that most animals have trouble with -- fur, teeth, bones...but the thing is, teeth and bones are on the inside of the soft and squishy prey, rather than a rough, scratchy piece of hard bark.
I'd worry that it might cause damage to their digestive tract, or just get lodged in there somewhere. It's not a risk I'm willing to take, and if the problem really does lie in moving her to feed her, then I will happily tolerate an ornery little nipper for the next twenty or thirty years, as opposed to risking her swallowing something that could potentially hurt or even kill her.
If I'm right and she is only doing it because she keeps mistaking me for food, then I hope never getting fed in there anymore will dampen her enthusiasm about expecting a meal whenever something warm walks by.
..Although it was sort of amusing to watch my siamese kitty hop about half a yard upward when she struck toward him from inside her enclosure, and he was a good two or three feet away, to boot.


Also, I have four stick-on thermometers (two on the cool side at the top and bottom, and two on the warm side at the top and bottom), and one of the little round ones inside.
Cool side is about 79 near the floor, 84 near the top; give or take a degree or two.
Warm side is usually about 88 near the bottom and 93 at the top.
Both are a bit warmer on a warmer day and a bit cooler on a cooler day, but not by very much. There's actually not a lot of difference from day or night, I keep a piece of plastic over half of the screen on top to help keep in heat and humidity, without sacrificing ventilation.

Nicci had a perfect shed a few weeks ago, crawled out the mouth of his skin and it all came off in one piece, and I'm told this is often considered a sign of excellent husbandry (although as long as it all comes off, it's still just fine).
I think I'm doing really well on the temperatures, though it was a bit tricky to get right at first..I must have exchanged more than half a dozen different lamps and bulbs by now, and went through three different heating pads. The 250watt ceramic heat emitter I got brand new off ebay for $20 (as opposed to $60 in the pet stores for the same one) seems to be doing the trick, though.

Also, I just misted her and she tensed up her neck a bit, but didn't prepare to strike this time, even if she watched me pretty carefully, then withdrew somewhat while I misted. I'm probably just getting my hopes up over something as simple as her opting for sleep or rest, but any progress at all is still progress, right?

Thanks so much for all of the responses and advice, I really am grateful!

[Slim]

Sorry, but I won't consider feeding her inside her enclosure, least of all when I suspect it is the sole reason she has such a behavioral issue in the first place. I would worry about my other snake becoming like this, coming to recognize any tank as a place they're put when it's time to eat, and viewing any hand or even face or body that gets too close as the potential "meal".

Bottom line up front, you maintain your animals anyway you see fit, but please be advised that your conclusion about tank feeding aggression goes directly against the experience of hundreds of keepers with thousands of years of combined experience, so you're running up hill right from the start.

It doesn't sound like you've had this snake long enough to know what might be pissing her off. You seem predestined to believe in the cage aggression myth, so I'm not suprised you fell back on that as your comfort zone when confronted by a stressed out and snappy BP.

If this snake calms down when you taker her out of the tank, that should be telling you something.

[Skittles1101]

Analog (stickie) guages are highly inaccurate, especially for reading hot spots. I bet that's one of the issues.

[Dember]

Honestly, it mostly just backs up my suspicion that she associates the enclosure specifically with eating. Doesn't it kind of make no sense for her to get "aggressive" ONLY while IN the enclosure, if the problem is removing her from it? Mike has a female low-white piebald who's as mad as a hornet if you as much as move her enclosure, much less take her out. THAT is aggression. People who have met this snake agree that she is not aggressive in general, and I can't see any reason that the enclosure itself would stress her out or make her mad.

I know I don't conform to what every single person, hundreds or even thousands of them or not, happen to preach by; because there is no way TO conform to everyone's opinions. I can't make everyone happy, I simply have to do what is best for my animals, and if there are highly unnecessary risks involved with something, it's just really not a very appealing option to me. Like I said, I'd gladly chance a bite with every misting or water change or poop-inspection, than risk this girl getting hurt or dying because of a stupid chunk of bark mulch.
We could also argue about live vs. pre-killed vs. frozen/thawed for hours and nothing anyone could tell me could convince me to change what I feed my snakes, for a plethora of reasons I could, and would, happily spend hours explaining and discussing.
Okay, so "thousands" of people have fed live with no problems. There have also been people with four-foot snakes who got bitten in the head by a tiny hamster and died minutes later.
There's no benefit, why even risk it? I think we can agree that a lack of appetite is NOT this girl's problem, in any way, shape or form. She'd eat my husky if she could.


"Analog (stickie) guages are highly inaccurate, especially for reading hot spots. I bet that's one of the issues."
I've heard some real horror stories about the digital/probe ones that adjust the temperatures automatically. What would you suggest?

[Skittles1101]

A temp gun. The right digital thermometer/hygrometer will be much more accurate and safe to use, even a crappy one is better than most analog ones. Highly accurate ones cost some money, but even a $20 will measure humidity and ambient temps much better, and the temp gun for hot spot temps.

[ExotixTowing]

Lets Officially debunk the Feeding in enclosure Myth.

I have fed Tic's and Burms in their rooms And never had an issue.

I feed my Ball in a separate tub because I use Aspen sub straight and He's a little guy.

I at times would feed the 12 foot tic I fostered by hand (Live) He was a big suck. The Burm would follow me to the corner.

Just try to listen to all the advise given here and digest it trust me even tho my post count is low I have read my arse off and learned a ton.

She sounds stressed out. And like satomi325 She is a good eater and that is never a bad thing

[Slim]

Honestly, it mostly just backs up my suspicion that she associates the enclosure specifically with eating.

How?

Doesn't it kind of make no sense for her to get "aggressive" ONLY while IN the enclosure, if the problem is removing her from it?

Yes, that makes no sense. There maybe something about being in the tank that is upsetting her, and it's not getting fed in there.

Mike has a female low-white piebald who's as mad as a hornet if you as much as move her enclosure, much less take her out. THAT is aggression.

Some are just like that, most are not.

People who have met this snake agree that she is not aggressive in general, and I can't see any reason that the enclosure itself would stress her out or make her mad.

Key words, "you can't see". You explained up front that you don't have a lot of experience. It could be something that you don't see.

I know I don't conform to what every single person, hundreds or even thousands of them or not, happen to preach by; because there is no way TO conform to everyone's opinions. I can't make everyone happy, I simply have to do what is best for my animals, and if there are highly unnecessary risks involved with something, it's just really not a very appealing option to me.

Not asking you to conform, but rules of thumb get that way for a reason. As I stated up front, do whatever you see fit, but don't expect me to buy into the cage aggression myth just because you think you have a snake that fits the bill.

Like I said, I'd gladly chance a bite with every misting or water change or poop-inspection, than risk this girl getting hurt or dying because of a stupid chunk of bark mulch.

That's your choice of substrate...there are others that have almost zero chance of ingestion.

We could also argue about live vs. pre-killed vs. frozen/thawed for hours and nothing anyone could tell me could convince me to change what I feed my snakes, for a plethora of reasons I could, and would, happily spend hours explaining and discussing.

Been there, done that, please feel free. That's what Forums are for...

Okay, so "thousands" of people have fed live with no problems. There have also been people with four-foot snakes who got bitten in the head by a tiny hamster and died minutes later.
There's no benefit, why even risk it? I think we can agree that a lack of appetite is NOT this girl's problem, in any way, shape or form. She'd eat my husky if she could.

Again, I ask, are you sure you've had this snake long enough to know what's got her upset? I highly doubt it's a case of cage aggression.

I've heard some real horror stories about the digital/probe ones that adjust the temperatures automatically.

Do tell? Digital/Probe thermometers and hygrometers are pretty much the standard of the hobby.

[Dember]

I will look into tempguns (when you said that I read that as 'tampons' and thought you were messing with me for a moment).
I notice that my temperatures mostly drop when misting and/or opening the lid, but they rise again quickly enough.

As for debunking, I do apologize, but that's still one more person, and even a thousand who do it successfully really couldn't convince me otherwise on this, once more, when hundreds of thousands feed live with no problem, but that does not mean that the risk does not exist, and pretending or hoping that "it would never happen to me" is just foolishness, to me.

And, I quite agree. I'd much rather have a snake who wants to eat everything in sight, than one who's shy or timid or who turns down ever meal offered, or goes off of food for months. Mine went a few weeks during shedding and then ate like a horse the moment his eyes weren't all cloudy anymore, I'd barely moved it in front of his face before he had it in his mouth.


"How?"
How does it back up my suspicion that she associates the enclosure with eating? ... Um. ... Because she immediately goes into hunting mode when she's put back in there, striking at anything warm, but take her out and she loses interest unless there's a rat in her face? =/ ...

"Yes, that makes no sense. There maybe something about being in the tank that is upsetting her, and it's not getting fed in there."
If she's expecting to bite the first thing that draws near and I would like her to STOP doing this, do I really want to re-encourage that by dangling a rat in there, rather than "re-training" her to realize that warm things that reach in there are not food? ^^'

"Some are just like that, most are not."
I know. Nothing about this girl makes me think she's one of them.

"Key words, "you can't see". You explained up front that you don't have a lot of experience. It could be something that you don't see."
I did not get my animals blindly, I have read about snakes since I was a little kid, after an event at my school ("Oh My Goodness Snakes") that made me fall in love with them. Upon learning that they can eat frozen-thawed food, I redoubled my interested over the prospect of someday owning them. I may be new to owning them, but I am not new to knowing about them. If you don't believe me, believe someone who has owned and bred BPs and other snakes for years who agrees?

"Not asking you to conform, but rules of thumb get that way for a reason. As I stated up front, do whatever you see fit, but don't expect me to buy into the cage aggression myth just because you think you have a snake that fits the bill."
I wouldn't dream of trying to get you to believe something you consider a myth. Thinking something is untrue doesn't make it so, though, and if enough people have had this problem for it to become a "myth", then what are the actual facts behind it? I'd love to ask the snakes and find out what they think, but that's not really an option.

"That's your choice of substrate...there are others that have almost zero chance of ingestion."
And as mentioned, that is not the only reason I refuse to feed inside of the snake's habitat. "Almost" zero would still concern me.

"Been there, done that, please feel free. That's what Forums are for..."
A little off-topic, but not a problem. To begin: do you feed live? If yes, why?

"Again, I ask, are you sure you've had this snake long enough to know what's got her upset? I highly doubt it's a case of cage aggression."
There is no one hundred percent sure way TO know, again, I can't exactly get the animal to tell me. I've watched her for around two weeks, you have never seen her at all.
I have seen a dozen or more BPs showing various types of aggression, and I have seen many more who show a strong urge to eat, both in real life and in videos -- I must have watched thirty or more videos (this is not an exaggeration) on how to properly feed frozen-thawed food before ever attempting it. I do have a rather good idea of what they look like when they're about to latch onto a food item. Her behavior, in every way, looks exactly like the latter.
I can tell when a dog is wagging its tail due to excitement or if it's wagging its tail because it is about to attack another dog. I can tell when a cat purrs if it is content or if it is in pain. These are minute signs of body language that most people miss or simply can't pick up on in non-human species. I've always been a bit of an outcast and animals do tend to make more sense to me than most people do.
I really don't think this is aggression -- warm water in a misting bottle catches the same attention, because it's warm and moving around as I mist her..as are my hands, which to a snake, might indeed appear to be a rodent. I can't get rid of the smell of my other animals completely, even with washing hands, so I suppose she could smell mammals on me, too; but she lived with dogs and cats before without any issues.
And IF it is aggression, that still doesn't explain; why wouldn't she nail me the moment I pick her up to feed her or take her out to clean, or when I reached in the tub to put her back after spot-cleaning her enclosure? If she's stressed or angry, I can't see why she would only react when she's in a place highly reminiscent of where she has been fed.


"Do tell? Digital/Probe thermometers and hygrometers are pretty much the standard of the hobby."
They're on this very site, as well as others. The most memorable was the snake accidentally spilling a water dish on the probe and having the temperatures soar sky-high as a result of the probe thinking it was way too cold and needed to be heated up.
I want my snakelets warm, not well done. ._.;;

[Slim]

I will look into tempguns (when you said that I read that as 'tampons' and thought you were messing with me for a moment).
I notice that my temperatures mostly drop when misting and/or opening the lid, but they rise again quickly enough.

As for debunking, I do apologize, but that's still one more person, and even a thousand who do it successfully really couldn't convince me otherwise on this, once more, when hundreds of thousands feed live with no problem, but that does not mean that the risk does not exist, and pretending or hoping that "it would never happen to me" is just foolishness, to me.

And, I quite agree. I'd much rather have a snake who wants to eat everything in sight, than one who's shy or timid or who turns down ever meal offered, or goes off of food for months. Mine went a few weeks during shedding and then ate like a horse the moment his eyes weren't all cloudy anymore, I'd barely moved it in front of his face before he had it in his mouth.


"How?"
How does it back up my suspicion that she associates the enclosure with eating? ... Um. ... Because she immediately goes into hunting mode when she's put back in there, striking at anything warm, but take her out and she loses interest unless there's a rat in her face? =/ ...

"Yes, that makes no sense. There maybe something about being in the tank that is upsetting her, and it's not getting fed in there."
If she's expecting to bite the first thing that draws near and I would like her to STOP doing this, do I really want to re-encourage that by dangling a rat in there, rather than "re-training" her to realize that warm things that reach in there are not food? ^^'

"Some are just like that, most are not."
I know. Nothing about this girl makes me think she's one of them.

"Key words, "you can't see". You explained up front that you don't have a lot of experience. It could be something that you don't see."
I did not get my animals blindly, I have read about snakes since I was a little kid, after an event at my school ("Oh My Goodness Snakes") that made me fall in love with them. Upon learning that they can eat frozen-thawed food, I redoubled my interested over the prospect of someday owning them. I may be new to owning them, but I am not new to knowing about them. If you don't believe me, believe someone who has owned and bred BPs and other snakes for years who agrees?

"Not asking you to conform, but rules of thumb get that way for a reason. As I stated up front, do whatever you see fit, but don't expect me to buy into the cage aggression myth just because you think you have a snake that fits the bill."
I wouldn't dream of trying to get you to believe something you consider a myth. Thinking something is untrue doesn't make it so, though, and if enough people have had this problem for it to become a "myth", then what are the actual facts behind it? I'd love to ask the snakes and find out what they think, but that's not really an option.

"That's your choice of substrate...there are others that have almost zero chance of ingestion."
And as mentioned, that is not the only reason I refuse to feed inside of the snake's habitat. "Almost" zero would still concern me.

"Been there, done that, please feel free. That's what Forums are for..."
A little off-topic, but not a problem. To begin: do you feed live? If yes, why?

"Again, I ask, are you sure you've had this snake long enough to know what's got her upset? I highly doubt it's a case of cage aggression."
There is no one hundred percent sure way TO know, again, I can't exactly get the animal to tell me. I've watched her for around two weeks, you have never seen her at all.
I have seen a dozen or more BPs showing various types of aggression, and I have seen many more who show a strong urge to eat, both in real life and in videos -- I must have watched thirty or more videos (this is not an exaggeration) on how to properly feed frozen-thawed food before ever attempting it. I do have a rather good idea of what they look like when they're about to latch onto a food item. Her behavior, in every way, looks exactly like the latter.
I can tell when a dog is wagging its tail due to excitement or if it's wagging its tail because it is about to attack another dog. I can tell when a cat purrs if it is content or if it is in pain. These are minute signs of body language that most people miss or simply can't pick up on in non-human species. I've always been a bit of an outcast and animals do tend to make more sense to me than most people do.
I really don't think this is aggression -- warm water in a misting bottle catches the same attention, because it's warm and moving around as I mist her..as are my hands, which to a snake, might indeed appear to be a rodent. I can't get rid of the smell of my other animals completely, even with washing hands, so I suppose she could smell mammals on me, too; but she lived with dogs and cats before without any issues.
And IF it is aggression, that still doesn't explain; why wouldn't she nail me the moment I pick her up to feed her or take her out to clean, or when I reached in the tub to put her back after spot-cleaning her enclosure? If she's stressed or angry, I can't see why she would only react when she's in a place highly reminiscent of where she has been fed.


"Do tell? Digital/Probe thermometers and hygrometers are pretty much the standard of the hobby."
They're on this very site, as well as others. The most memorable was the snake accidentally spilling a water dish on the probe and having the temperatures soar sky-high as a result of the probe thinking it was way too cold and needed to be heated up.
I want my snakelets warm, not well done. ._.;;

Sounds like you have all your own answers. Nothing I can help with here. Good luck!

[satomi325]

I think you're mixing up thermometer and thermostat. Thermostat regulates the temperature of the uth. Get an acurite digital thermometer from Walmart for $12. It can measure the hot and cold side as well as the humidity. It's a good investment. You can also get a temp gun. But as everyone has said, the stick on ones aren't reliable or accurate.

I use both an acurite and temp gun.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk