Bumble bee too small to breed?

[apple2]

I wouldn't breed. I also don't adhere to 1500 exclusively. I weigh her, and if she's a decent weight and has been eating well I give it a shot. I generally wait for them to get a bit bigger before breeding, if only to get more eggs per clutch.

Also why are you feeding 5 mice a week instead of 1 or 2 rats? Best to get her switched over soon. Rats are more nutritious and will make her grow faster.

[RichsBallPythons]

I wouldn't breed. I also don't adhere to 1500 exclusively. I weigh her, and if she's a decent weight and has been eating well I give it a shot. I generally wait for them to get a bit bigger before breeding, if only to get more eggs per clutch.

Also why are you feeding 5 mice a week instead of 1 or 2 rats? Best to get her switched over soon. Rats are more nutritious and will make her grow faster.

Says who, You?

Mice and rats gram per gram are the same nutrition until actual studies are conducted. Whether the snake is eating mice or rats it dont matter so long its eating. No one here has done exclusive studies to prove one is better than the other, but visual refrence.

Mice are closer related to ASF than rats. Rats arent even a natural food to them as they have distinct smell. Which is why a good portion of Ball pythons dont switch

[RobNJ]

Says who, You?

Mice and rats gram per gram are the same nutrition until actual studies are conducted.

Nutritional information on feeders is readily available, just irrelevant since we don't know the nutritional requirements of snakes.

Whether the snake is eating mice or rats it dont matter so long its eating. No one here has done exclusive studies to prove one is better than the other, but visual refrence.

This is true.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Mice are closer related to ASF than rats. Rats arent even a natural food to them as they have distinct smell. Which is why a good portion of Ball pythons dont switch

From what I understand, they aren't in the same genus as either rats or mice. They smell nothing like either one. Rats and mice smell far more alike than either does like an ASF. (ASFs have a strange zoo-like, almost fruity smell that reminds me of fruit bat enclosures).

Out of around 80 animals, I have perhaps 2 that eat only mice. The rest eat rats...however, I should point out that I have more snakes that eat ONLY rats than I do snakes that eat only mice. Judging by the reactions of hatchlings each year, I'd give a coin toss as to whether they will be a mouser or a ratter exclusively. I always have a few animals that will start only on one type of rodent, and stick to it. Mice aren't any more likely to be that rodent, though. I've also started hatchlings on ASFs. None of the ones I started on ASF refused to convert to rats easily.
(This is why I stopped bothering to raise ASFs).

I do agree that snakes on rats tend to put on weight and grow more quickly, but it may be because the rats are proportionally heavier for their girth. An adult mouse and a crawler rat look similar in size, but the crawler is heavier.

As for young females going off feed...I think this is related to hormones, and I've never once had a female that went off feed at the beginning of the breeding season begin eating again before egg laying time, whether she was bred or not. I feel it's best to let the females go through this 'puberty' period without breeding them, as they tend to eat well the following year, and breed well after that.

From all that I've seen, I just cannot believe that breeding females under 1500 grams is healthy for them, or in their best interests at all, and I've seen much to suggest it's definitely not.
Your mileage may vary, but I don't think you're going to find any 1400 gram females laying 13 egg clutches, like the one I got from my big 3500 gram girl.
Nor will you find any female bred at 1200 grams reaching 3500 grams...their growth slows dramatically when they start breeding too young.

[RichsBallPythons]

Your mileage may vary, but I don't think you're going to find any 1400 gram females laying 13 egg clutches, like the one I got from my big 3500 gram girl.
Nor will you find any female bred at 1200 grams reaching 3500 grams...their growth slows dramatically when they start breeding too young.

Bigger dont mean bigger clutches all the time. My 1400g normal girl gave me 8 eggs last year where my 2500g mojo female who is 2.5 years old dropped 7 eggs. Age and size plays very little role in the amount of eggs one will produce.

Genetics is where its at if you want large clutches, you hold back the females from a large clutch or buy from a large clutch. As some females will never surpass 1500g. And there's nothing wrong with it at all. There's not that many females out there as it is dropping 10-15 eggs as it is with the average clutch being 6-8 eggs.

I also have a virgin girl that laid last year at 1600g, shes gained that weight back and added 200g, and has recently just ovulated. They continue to grow well for me even when bred young. Ive got girls that laid small who are in the 2000g range now. Never once did it occur to me that breeding a small female will doom them to be small for life, as i wont believe that for one second.

[RobNJ]

I always have a few animals that will start only on one type of rodent, and stick to it. Mice aren't any more likely to be that rodent, though.

In my experience it's much easier to get a mouse eater that's eaten a few rats back on mice than it is to get a rat eater that's eaten a few mice back on rats.

From all that I've seen, I just cannot believe that breeding females under 1500 grams is healthy for them, or in their best interests at all, and I've seen much to suggest it's definitely not.
Your mileage may vary, but I don't think you're going to find any 1400 gram females laying 13 egg clutches, like the one I got from my big 3500 gram girl.
Nor will you find any female bred at 1200 grams reaching 3500 grams...their growth slows dramatically when they start breeding too young.

I'm going to have to say it depends on the individual. I bred a 3 year old, thick 1,200 gram female last year that gave me a perfect clutch of 4 eggs(I don't particularly mind small clutches). Her recovery after laying was miles ahead of any of my larger females on the same feeding schedule, and she has surpassed a couple of them in size(currently 2,000+ grams). She currently has 7-8 developing follicles...so I would say that if this were to be a continuing trend, she'll have no problem at all getting big and regularly dropping 10+ egg clutches.