Opinions please

[Montoya]

I can clearly see the pattern similarities.

It seems you have a very interesting male. Is he a desert by chance?

Gale

Yes, it is a PE line desert male.

Wow those are awesome! The first one looks like my Jungle, same color and interesting pattern. Wouldn't happen to be a female would it?

Thanks, Can you post up a picture of yours so I can see it? That is a male pictured. I only have 1 female and the cinnamon cross which is also a girl. Ther might be another girl who is less marked but it was very male heavy.

Is the sire the desert or the dinker you're trying to figure out..

It was the desert male, I have a dinker male with a crazy belly who is breeding this season.

The patterns on all of them in question seem to have a super crazy busy pattern the first 1/4-1/2 of the snake then dull down a bit
....or is that just me


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No, you nailed it pretty well, last half or quarter is boring. It also tends to link up the pattern a little bit also.

[SnakeKittyFishy]

[QUOTE=Montoya;1761037]Thanks, Can you post up a picture of yours so I can see it? That is a male pictured. I only have 1 female and the cinnamon cross which is also a girl. Ther might be another girl who is less marked but it was very male heavy.QUOTE]

Well here is a baby pic, this was 15 days after he was born sorry for the pic quality, breeder's pic.

Here he is after a shed 4 days ago. He's 1 year and 8 mos old.

[Montoya]

Here is the sire

Baby picture

current


Desert (deep black/busy) produced 2 of these from two moms.

Both together

Desert pastel (I think the other gene is in play here also)

Pastel group shot (same clutch)

Cinnamon desert with cinnamon combo (pre shed, sorry)


I know it's a lot of pictures, hope this helps some.

[Montoya]

[QUOTE=SnakeKittyFishy;1761062]

Thanks, Can you post up a picture of yours so I can see it? That is a male pictured. I only have 1 female and the cinnamon cross which is also a girl. Ther might be another girl who is less marked but it was very male heavy.QUOTE]

Well here is a baby pic, this was 15 days after he was born sorry for the pic quality, breeder's pic.

Here he is after a shed 4 days ago. He's 1 year and 8 mos old.

Wow, thanks for the photo. I think that might be a winner, it certainly explains the look. I got a lot of offspring this year, so hopefully I can get somewhere with this in a couple of years.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Until one of those combo females is old enough to breed back to the sire to figure out what's going on with him here's what I'd do...

First I'd want to find out if the hidden gene is compatible with any of the morphs that cause genes like that to make crazy combos.. Mystic, mojo, russo het, and special for instance.. Don't forget about yellow belly.

If you have a female of any of the morphs I just named, especially the leucy compatible ones, definitely hook that desert up with one of those and see what happens. It's worth a shot while you're raising up those other babies. I'd shoot for mojo or special.

[Montoya]

Until one of those combo females is old enough to breed back to the sire to figure out what's going on with him here's what I'd do...

First I'd want to find out if the hidden gene is compatible with any of the morphs that cause genes like that to make crazy combos.. Mystic, mojo, russo het, and special for instance.. Don't forget about yellow belly.

If you have a female of any of the morphs I just named, especially the leucy compatible ones, definitely hook that desert up with one of those and see what happens. It's worth a shot while you're raising up those other babies. I'd shoot for mojo or special.

We think alot alike. He is breeding a yb female now and was planned to breed the russo female I have. However, the russo shows no interest yet and I don't have any other girls in the BEL complex. She may not go again until next year but I will have a paradox butter available then as well. I was encouraged by Chad to do those breedings as well. I dont know much about the jungle but from what I see, it looks likely.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

I have a similar project I'm trying to work out and that's what made me think of it. I produced some light cinnys from an female of unknown origin so I'm trying to get a male to breed back this season to work out if there's a hidden gene or if it's just a fader gene or a new blackback gene that lightens also.

Go to world of ball pythons and look up the special cinnamon. Mine don't look like that but when you consider how all of the subtle morphs that are in the leucy complex like the special, mystic, phantom, and russo, all lighten whatever morph they are combined with that is not in that complex, plus they all have a similar jungle pattern, it's an obvious first choice of breeding to rule out what it might be.

Sorry for the run-on sentence lol

[kevinb]

I see the same pattern is the second set of pics. Crazy to mellow pattern. Very cool. I'm loving that desert cinny.

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[mattchibi]

Very cool project!! That cinnamon group shot is amazing

[Montoya]

I have a similar project I'm trying to work out and that's what made me think of it. I produced some light cinnys from an female of unknown origin so I'm trying to get a male to breed back this season to work out if there's a hidden gene or if it's just a fader gene or a new blackback gene that lightens also.

Go to world of ball pythons and look up the special cinnamon. Mine don't look like that but when you consider how all of the subtle morphs that are in the leucy complex like the special, mystic, phantom, and russo, all lighten whatever morph they are combined with that is not in that complex, plus they all have a similar jungle pattern, it's an obvious first choice of breeding to rule out what it might be.

Sorry for the run-on sentence lol

I checked it out, that's interesting. I still lean towards the jungle though. It explains the linking that tends to occur. Personally, I hope it not in the BEL complex. I hope you figure out what's going on with your group, if you get the opportunity I would love to see what you have going on there. You can send me a link if you posted it or an email to montoya@myactv.net. Thanks for the assistance.

I see the same pattern is the second set of pics. Crazy to mellow pattern. Very cool. I'm loving that desert cinny.

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Thanks, It has been difficult since deserts tend to throw different looks and colors. I knew something was up early on, but it wasn't until the pastel breeding that I saw it come though to another morph. Now that the cinnamon clutch is out with this result, I am more positive on it.

I bought that desert male because he had a different look to him, but I am still surprised he throws that. I don't see many visual markers on him like some of the offspring.

That desert cinnamon is awesome looking. Not many have been produced and only one photographed that I can find. I think it contains that other gene in it. It is very hard to get a picture to show her true colors. I will post a post shed soon.