wobble

[interloc]

I'm going to jump on my soap box for a moment... Why do people continue to breed these animals?!?!? So what if it doesn't seem to "bother" them! That is not "normal" and I feel horrible for these snakes.

Are you saying stop breeding spiders all together. That would be a huge mistake IMO. A bad wobbler can produce a very very mild wobble and vice versa. So it's not like w could jus brew it out of em. Spider combos are amazing IMO. I would be way sadder to never be able to see a spider ever again. Also the wobble increases their personality. My spider is the best snake to handle our of my collection. He acts more like a boa. Very inquisitive and loves exploring. Everyone needs a spider in their collection. If not for breeding with, for enjoyment as part of the family.

[RobNJ]

I'm going to jump on my soap box for a moment... Why do people continue to breed these animals?!?!? So what if it doesn't seem to "bother" them! That is not "normal" and I feel horrible for these snakes.

The only real reason is lack of self control, or not caring whether they breed animals naturally or not.
Enigma leopard geckos have a similar problem. I am against breeding any animals with problems, no matter how minor. Altering the colors/patterns is enough. People don't need to be messing with how the animals' brains function.
I 'argued my point' against breeding animals with problems for 8+ pages on this forum. The weird thing is that it seems more apparent/obvious to the people that AREN'T into reptiles, not to breed animals with problems. The ones with 'years of experience' usually make excuses for breeding them because they like the pattern of the morph, even when they know it's wrong.

Some people go as far as to say that they are worried about getting one, but are getting one anyways.

Would you discourage humans with genetic "deficiencies" from breeding?

As far as spiders go, they are what they are...if you don't think they should be bred, deal with it, because they will be anyway. They wobble, not a huge deal really. They eat, they drink, they breed all just fine. Some wobbles are way out there, some barely noticeable.

I'll even turn this up a notch and talk caramel albinos. Sure, kinking is an issue, but I'm sure kinked animals can be bred and produce fine babies while fine examples would produce kinked babies(I, for the record, do not have caramel albinos in my collection). Someone could have bred and still be breeding kinked caramel albinos, selling off the non-kinked offspring, and no one would be the wiser...it just so happens that breeding kinked animals is such a taboo subject.

Point being, our animals are what they are...some love them and will always breed them, others think it's not right. Whether the issue be kinking, duck-billing, wobbling, or females not breeding(), these mutations are perfectly capable of living full, normal lives.

[interloc]

Would you discourage humans with genetic "deficiencies" from breeding?

As far as spiders go, they are what they are...if you don't think they should be bred, deal with it, because they will be anyway. They wobble, not a huge deal really. They eat, they drink, they breed all just fine. Some wobbles are way out there, some barely noticeable.

I'll even turn this up a notch and talk caramel albinos. Sure, kinking is an issue, but I'm sure kinked animals can be bred and produce fine babies while fine examples would produce kinked babies(I, for the record, do not have caramel albinos in my collection). Someone could have bred and still be breeding kinked caramel albinos, selling off the non-kinked offspring, and no one would be the wiser...it just so happens that breeding kinked animals is such a taboo subject.

Point being, our animals are what they are...some love them and will always breed them, others think it's not right. Whether the issue be kinking, duck-billing, wobbling, or females not breeding(), these mutations are perfectly capable of living full, normal lives.

Amen brother!

[turk621]

i think to each there own. If the wobble is not for you stay away from them if it doesn't bother you go for it. spiders do make some of the nicest combos for sure

[DooLittle]

Initially I was concerned about wobble, but liked spiders and bumble bees. You can search for lots of videos on you tube. There are more extreme cases. My bumble bee when we first got her as a hatchling would "bobble" her head when exploring. Also the first few feeds she would bobble and miss on the first strike. But now I don't see it anymore. I think when they are stressed or excited it comes out more. Like others have said, don't let that stop you from getting something with the spider gene. On the flip side, I would probably not buy one someone is pointing out the wobble on, as it may be one of the extreme cases.

[RedViper]

i have a spider that has a very slight wobble but when i got her as a hachling it was more noticeable but she fed fine, now, she feeds every time (not missed a meal in just over a year that iv had her) and i don't see her wobble. she eats, poo's and sheds fine, 1 of my best snakes for handling, my kids love her........ its just something that's part of what the spider morph is, I'm happy with her and she seems "happy" in her self so I'm happy all round

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

In just a matter of a year the new generation of herpers is sounding rather "peta-esqu" in so many ways. I can see why we lost soooo many veterans...

[zeion97]

In just a matter of a year the new generation of herpers is sounding rather "peta-esqu" in so many ways. I can see why we lost soooo many veterans...

Better yet... does this NEED to turn into another "Should we breed spiders thread" In truth if the animal is in no pain does it matter? IT's not as bad as people letting cats and dogs live with 1 to 2 legs... In the end, what someone does is there own choice, the snakes are in no pain so it really shouldn't matter, I do agree, some of the "bad" wobbles make me sad, but most wobble aren't that bad....

[Stewart_Reptiles]

The only real reason is lack of self control, or not caring whether they breed animals naturally or not.
Enigma leopard geckos have a similar problem. I am against breeding any animals with problems, no matter how minor. Altering the colors/patterns is enough. People don't need to be messing with how the animals' brains function.
I 'argued my point' against breeding animals with problems for 8+ pages on this forum. The weird thing is that it seems more apparent/obvious to the people that AREN'T into reptiles, not to breed animals with problems. The ones with 'years of experience' usually make excuses for breeding them because they like the pattern of the morph, even when they know it's wrong.

Some people go as far as to say that they are worried about getting one, but are getting one anyways.

Here we go again looking down on people who chose to work with Spiders just like you did in that 8 long pages thread, sound like a broken record don't you think

People who are knowledgeable hence those who work with those animals (that excludes you ) don't make excuses or lie like you have insinuated in the past.

Your argument was and is still founded on YOUR belief that spiders do not have any quality of life which as you already know is totally false (Oh I forgot you do not know since you do not have hands on experience with spiders )

Anyway the bottom line is that Spiders are not for everyone and a buyer should do some research prior to buy a specific animal and decide for themselves if the animal is a fit for them or not.

Remember spiders all wobble to a degree this does not mean they are all train wrecks without quality of life like some like to make it sound to be , in most cases it's hardly noticeable and in no way affect their life.

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Better yet... does this NEED to turn into another "Should we breed spiders thread" In truth if the animal is in no pain does it matter? IT's not as bad as people letting cats and dogs live with 1 to 2 legs... In the end, what someone does is there own choice, the snakes are in no pain so it really shouldn't matter, I do agree, some of the "bad" wobbles make me sad, but most wobble aren't that bad....

I agree.. I love bees and every one I've ever dealt with barely had a noticeable wobble. It's the noticeable "corkscrew" I don't like.