CNN video about python ban

[Anatopism]

That's even worse then this one..

http://youtu.be/Zom3GGxQ82g

Greg is trying to defend the hobby, but he's censored and then it pans off. They know what they've done, they're just trying to censor everyone who says the ban is bad... It's pathetic.

Did they really say sine burms are 26 feet long? Am I mistaken in thinking a retic holds the world record at 24 ft?

[decensored]

morally speaking no, not everyone should have a giant python for the reasons relating to the animals welfare. I agree with you guys there, but that is not what this ban is about. People buy domestic animals and abuse them, not everyone should have a dog, or a cat, or even a goldfish for that matter.. They are not addressing an issue of animal cruelty. The Ban is based on their attempt to solve the invasive python population.. It's based on false information and they are using the media to spread ignorance in order to gain support.

I cannot see how the hobby has done this to itself.

As much as there is an issue with people in the reptile community who cannot properly care for their animals; this ban has little to do with that. Joe Blow is not importing a wild caught Indian Rock python from over seas for his 4 year old daughter.. These animals are already here in every state. IMO it's promoting additional releases into the ecosystem, and adding to a problem while pissing off a lot your citizens.

Thats just my $.02

[Skiploder]

I don't think that I should have to jump through 50 government hoops to own a dog or a horse or a burmese python.

It's okay to block people from owning burms... because why? Because SOME people get them and neglect them or get hurt by them?

So ONE person every TWO years is way too many folks killed for you? Giants are so dangerous that only .5 people have been killed per year... and that's a reason to ban ownership?
So a few people neglect their burms while most take decent care of them.

So you're saying the government should force anyone who wants to buy a dog, cat, horse or any other pet to jump through 50 hoops and pay fees in order to own a pet?

That's ONE step away from "No one owns pets."

Go join Peta. You're almost there when you say it's okay for "most" people to not be able to own exotics/pythons/insert animal here. Because you are labeling the general public as incapable of owning a pet, while saying you yourself are okay to own one... so the general public should be blocked from owning pets. Guess what? You are the general public. Everyone on BP.net here "are" the general public. If you don't own a acreditted zoo, you are just a member of the public, just like all the schmos out there who think giant snakes will live in Canada next year.

In 20 years, no one in the "general public" will be able to own even a dog. Enjoy your pets now, your grandkids won't be able to.

Theresa, I could care less if 1000 idiots a year kill themselves with giant constrictors. This isn't about protecting the public from giant snakes - at least for me it isn't and it never will be.

As I stated before - I support responsible pet ownership - no more, no less. There is nothing hidden in that statement, no secret allegiance to PETA or HSUS and no hidden agenda to take away your right to own anything. I live in a state with bans on some snakes (a few of which I keep or have kept) and have been required to apply for permits and have my snake house inspected on several occasions in order to legally keep some of my animals.

Do I mind? In the beginning I did, I don't anymore. I've seen way too much irresponsibility with these animals to be able to look anyone straight in the face and say that these animals deserve the fate they often end up getting. I have stated this before on this forum, that when I was heavy into breeding I was seeing over half my animals coming back to me within the first three years.

Why? Because I used to sell with right of first refusal contracts. The incidence rate of poor and abusive care in this hobby is higher than anyone here will ever admit.

Hell, Theresa, most of the people you see getting all frothed up over this amendment will post here like mad for a year or two and then quietly fade out and sell there collections when the novelty of owning a snake wears off. We see it all the time on these forums. Aren't we always seeing waves of new people coming in, then going out just as quickly? What happens to those animals?

Well, as a breeder who made it a cornerstone of my business to take those animals back - I know what happens to them.

I am not an advocate of bans and I am not an advocate of permits or fees. What I have always been is an advocate of responsible ownership and for self governance and control.

While the ongoing bans and legislative attempts have nothing to do with the real issues in this hobby, they ran concurrent and parallel long enough that both PIJAC and USARK began supporting model legislation that set the guidelines for restrictions and permits in order to keep venomous, giants and species of potential environmental concern.

There were minds there that understood that the only way to combat this bad press in our hobby was to head it off at the pass and make an attempt to show that we could regulate ourselves - to deal with the issues, both imagined, hyped and real.

Well, you don't have to go far to see USARK being ripped apart in some quarters for this model legislation. Mark my words, without it, the states will fall - one by one - and within 5 years, more animals will be added to the Lacey Act.

What people don't get is that there is not enough financial or political firepower in the "Reptile Nation" to fight the animal rights and environmental lobbies. The latter is more financially and politically viable than we will ever be. USARK gets it and hence the path towards self "inflicted" legislation. You may not like it, but it is our future.

In the meantime, while USARK - despite their penchant for taking credit where credit is NOT due - understands that petitions and hand wringing isn't going to fix this. This Amendment to Federal Law must be dealt with in court. This is a pointed lesson in why we are always on the defensive..........

We talk a lot about fighting for our rights for a period and think signing petitions and running our mouths is the answer. Well, let's see where that gets us.

In the meantime, I will continue to help people be more responsible owners in my own way. I will continue to track legislation that affects me and do actual research as to who sits on what committees and work from there.

When it becomes harder and harder to obtain these animals without permits, I will do what I need to do to be able to own them - as Theresa I ASSume you will too. Then perhaps we can look back at the last couple of years in honest retrospect and discuss the politics of absolutism and where it ended up getting the Reptile Nation.

[Skiploder]

From USARK's website:


It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with potentially dangerous reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

No member of the public, no emergency responder, no innocent bystander has ever been seriously injured or killed by a captive reptile in the United States.

Support - Legislation for responsible regulation of large snake species, venomous reptiles and crocodilians as outlined by USARK.

Oppose - Legislation designating any reptiles as Dangerous or Inherently Dangerous; or banning the private ownership and trade in any reptiles based on unsubstantiated and false claims of public safety risk.




The age of self regulation is already here folks. When the defenders of your rights are advocating legislation for caging standards, safety protocols, micro-chipping and the right of entry to inspect same............................need I say more?

[Giftbearer]

This probably needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Spay and neuter the ones in the Everglades to keep them from reproducing, and make stiffer penalties for dumping these snakes.

There's no way the government can control every scenario anyway, so there has to be a better alternative instead of bans or sweeping "big brother" type regulation.

What individual citizens can do preventatively is to educate people on the care of these animals, and maybe come up with a back-up plan for where they can go if some owners can no longer keep them at some point so that they don't dump them in the wild.

In fact there really should be some breeders on channels like Animal Planet doing educational TV shows about snakes. Instead of the fear-mongering shows painting them as bloodthirsty creatures just waiting to squeeze the life out of you, these shows could show snakes that are tame and show people what each species needs to be well cared for. That would go a long way towards a real, long-term solution.

[decensored]

This probably needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Spay and neuter the ones in the Everglades to keep them from reproducing, and make stiffer penalties for dumping these snakes.

The issue didn't originate with people dumping their animals in the Everglades. The issue started with a breeding facility that was destroyed in the early 90's by hurricane Andrew. That is why they are shutting down the import of animals because it seriously cripples the breeding industry.

There's no way the government can control every scenario anyway, so there has to be a better alternative instead of bans or sweeping "big brother" type regulation.

I agree. The problem already exists in the Everglades. They will not be able to eradicate the population of constrictors in Florida, So this ban is useless. Considering this is essentially the only place that they are able to thrive in, there is no reason to make a country wide ban. However, the issue falls under the federal jurisdiction and therefor everyone is suffering. On a state level Florida had given select experts permits to catch and euthanize the snakes found in the everglades - this ban is the Federal governments response.. I can understand that they have to do SOMETHING to play to the general population. Licencing and permits will create revenue. Issues like these are very profitable for certain government divisions.

What individual citizens can do preventatively is to educate people on the care of these animals, and maybe come up with a back-up plan for where they can go if some owners can no longer keep them at some point so that they don't dump them in the wild.

These exist, but again - the issue doesn't stem from dumping pets.. The issues in the populated areas come from irresponsible owners, but DNA tests done on the snakes in the Everglades, shows that most of the pythons are closely related to each other, and come from the breeding facility that was wiped out.

In fact there really should be some breeders on channels like Animal Planet doing educational TV shows about snakes. Instead of the fear-mongering shows painting them as bloodthirsty creatures just waiting to squeeze the life out of you, these shows could show snakes that are tame and show people what each species needs to be well cared for. That would go a long way towards a real, long-term solution.


Its the news outlets that are painting them as monsters. The educational programs, for the most part are trying to spread awareness. Python Hunters is a good one that solely deals with the issues in Florida.

The ban will not solve any issues. All it will do is effect the lively hood of many people in the reptile community. What the government doesn't necessarily realize is how quickly and steadily the reptile economy is growing. My prediction is that there is going to be a noticeable drop in taxable income. That's just my $.02

[MasonC2K]

I actually thought Jack was trying to help but just did a crappy job of saying it.

As for some of the other conversation here...

You have to have a license to drive. You have to have licenses to own dogs and cats in most places. So I don't see why not for big snakes.

[jschwe]

Its the news outlets that are painting them as monsters. The educational programs, for the most part are trying to spread awareness. Python Hunters is a good one that solely deals with the issues in Florida.

Python Hunters is a great show for helping people understand the issue. However, I had animal planet on a couple weeks ago and a show was on (can't remember the name of it) that was basically talking about how snakes are out of control in the US. Stories of people finding Red Tail Boas in their gardens and barely surviving...someone's cat came across a Ball Python...all with dramatic reenactments. After watching this show, its amazing people can go near snakes without being eaten immediately. They literally made them out to be evil creatures out to destroy us, as if they were invading the everglades on purpose.

Animal Planet can be awesome, but it also caters to what people want....which involves a lot of sensationalizing.

[Redneck_Crow]

This probably needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Spay and neuter the ones in the Everglades to keep them from reproducing, and make stiffer penalties for dumping these snakes.

There is a reason you don't hear a whole lot about spaying/neutering snakes...they aren't puppies or kitties and you're talking major league surgery and major league skills needed to do it when you get into such surgery on snakes. It simply isn't practical.